>> All right everybody, we have
our second fireside chat ready for you all.
We have some dope folks on
the stage with us this afternoon.
>> Thank you.
>> I'm saying I can't undercut your dopeness.
>> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
>> So, if you're
familiar with a game called Cards For All People,
these two wonderful folks are the ones who created,
Jay Bobo and Lathesha Williams.
Give them a round of applause please.
So, for folks who are not
initiated and don't know about Cards For All People.
>> Okay.
>> So everybody what,
the game is and where you started?
How you got into the business?
The first time you had grits? What was everything
that you can think of to share with the folks at home.
>> Cards for all.
So that's the business name.
We make a bunch of different card games.
Black Card Revoked,
which is by far one of the most popular games.
Is also America's first
black culture trivia game show on BET.
It airs actually.
>> Thursdays at 10:00.
>> Clap it up for that because
that's a huge accomplishment.
>> We also make Gay Card Revoked,
Nerd Card Revoked, Girls Night Out,
this is another huge game for us.
Is that everything? I guess. That's our major brands.
Then we do expansion packs too.
But we've been around since July 2015.
>> Yes.
>> For whatever reason people feel
like, I don't know why,
but they assume that when people of color
and LGBT community doesn't like games. I don't know.
>> Yes.
>> But, I think we've been proved that wrong,
fully bootstrapped, when we
did half a million dollars on our first year.
>> Wow!
>> That's a seven figure business.
So, we make games for people, it's fun.
>> Nice, nice. I mean for folks who haven't played,
kind of give folks an overview of,
what the game is specifically,
and let them know,
what some of the ideas behind the it all?
>> Black Card Revoked is
a celebration of African-American culture, history.
But more importantly, it's about shared experience.
>> Yes.
>> Being black in this country- is that me or you?
You just gave me the look my grandmama will give me.
>> My tag, right there.
>> This shared experiences of
being African-American in this country are
amazingly unique, and we totally
wanted to celebrate that and educate.
So, it's both educational.
It's a great shared experience game.
Lots of debate, lots of chatter, lots of talk.
It's an overall amazing game experience for sure.
>> So, how do you translate
black culture into game form in a way that doesn't,
that incorporates all the things
that we kind of grew up with,
and some of the kind of touchstones in which we all,
when you get to the house for
Thanksgiving, and you're like,
yes, so that thing you did,
that then becomes a card?
>> Yes.
>> Or something like that. How do
you encapsulate all those things
into something that people then take out and play in-.
>> A lot of playtesting.
So, the 80 percent of our customers are women,
ages 21 through 40.
So, I'm a programmer, that's kind of where I started,
so we just- our background is more sports entertainment.
So for our stuff,
we do a lot of data collection,
we look at sort of what people are talking about.
That kind of helps us get started.
Then a ton of playtesting.
Get into the community and
saying like, "Hey, here's the game",
and we ask, like if people are
not debating heavily, if they're not.
>> Yelling and screaming.
>> Yelling and screaming and so,
it's just really simple.
And then other funny thing about it is,
is that we just recognize that,
and I think somebody mentioned it earlier,
black culture, gay culture is American culture.
So, we find out that for example,
interracial couples or people
who may not necessarily safer for
Black Card Revoked may not necessarily be
black, or identified as black.
They love the game just as well.
I mean it's like, "who here watch Fresh Prince"?
I did. You know what I mean?
>> How many fights did
the Fresh Prince get into before his mom got scared?
>> God bless you.
>> All right.
One little fight and say it's all right.
So that's a good example. Right? So, yes,
that's kind of the way it works.
>> Yes.
>> It's kind of when we first started with the idea,
we were looking at the fact that people come
together on cultural topics
of certain sort of conversations.
We learn that in our work in sports.
I mean, Lathesha did that for 10 something years.
And like, there's not products for this stuff,
there's not products for these type
of things, and it popped.
>> Yes.
>> Here we are.
>> So, one of the interesting things- I love that.
It's like, "Here we are".
>> When his drinking his cup.
Okay, you and I,will see you.
>> The Cognac-.
>> Hennesy or Crown Royal or anything.
>> Stable cards.
>> I'm all for the La Condo.
>> I feel like-.
>> I feel like, Wakanda can,
You can't Wakanda drinking because there's no hands [inaudible].
>> I feel like when you have a card game.
You need a subsequent,
specific drink that goes along with a card game.
>> Yes.
>> And I love the fact that Jay will
not give me to a fight like Spade's.
So, I appreciate that.
>> Yes.
>> Just off the jump.
>> Yes.
>> One of the interesting things about
the game that you've crafted,
I'm sure a lot of folks have given the similarities,
to like the Cards Against Humanity
or something that.
>> People always assume that because of our company name,
but the game mechanics are completely different.
>> Yes.
>> So, our game is a game to really simple,
standard trivia questions like,
how many fights did the Fresh Prince
get into to before his mom got scared.
And then, there's stuff like,
we got majority rules cards,
which are probably the most popular ones,
and that'll be something like.
>> What do you do eat on your grits?
>> Yes.
>> What do you eat on your grits?
>> That's all that matter for
your fight too. That's a fight card.
>> Yes.
>> Cheese, butter, sugar.
>> Cheese, butter.
>> Raise your hand if it's cheese.
>> Salt and pepper.
>> Raise your hand if it's butter.
Raise your hand if it's sugar.
>> So, who's the best rap group of all time from the 90s?
Right? Maybe be something like that.
Who's the best R&B group of all time?
So, our first game was more of that stuff.
Second, so we put
out a new game every year for Black Card Revoked.
So, first year was more of "Best of " type of thing.
Second year, we started doing
more kind of situations that you run into every day.
In our third game, which we released October last year,
is more, some kind of history-focused,
and we kind of co-opt it stay woke.
So as a lot of that sort of stuff and
it was probably more political.
But it's the same sort of stuff.
A lot of fun, a lot of debate, it's good times.
>> So really, when you, I mean,
besides pulling inspiration from
kind of all the things that we
lived through and have experience,
are there things that you won't touch?
When it comes to topics or,
because it's a lighthearted game. All right.
So, it's like someone you want to have fun but it's
also you can get a job in
there if you wanted to. And you see a lot.
>> All the time.
>> Yes. So it's like you see in
a lot of other games of that sort,
where there's a lot of
controversies about punching down, right?
And yours is very light now when you like,
"We want these things to be light
and airy and get into people",
but it's not in that kind of sense.
How you kind of diverted from it and make sure
that you hadn't had to worry about
some of those things and a lot of
other games might have fallen into a trap with?
>> Well, I think playtesting has been key.
>> Yes.
>> And for the few moments we had,
touch the hot button topic.
>> Yes.
>> The internet let's us know,
they have no problem voicing their opinions
to us directly, indirectly.
>> Yes.
>> They love to eat everything in it's way.
>> But it's not safe though.
We don't make safe game.
>> Right.
>> You know what I mean? Like you have
to take a perspective on stuff.
Right? I mean we're more
progressive than we are probably conservative.
But the exact same time,
I'm more kind of concerned
with initiating the discussion,
get the discussion going,
and we'll throw stuff in there that
maybe we don't agree with
personally but if it creates
conversations with people, then that's great.
>> Yes.
>> I mean so, I think there's
a lot of great opportunity for
people to do games and reach out to diverse audiences.
When you look at like, the long tail of gaming,
you say, "Okay, who's not being for us".
It's real simple. Right? It's like,
nobody else was doing this.
>> Yes.
>> You know what I mean. So, that continues to exist.
Right? It's like I
would sort of challenge the people in the room
to spend time creating games for diverse audiences.
Not necessarily just looking at, it's just self,
that's one of the issues I think,
sometimes of being a creative.
Right? You say, "Okay,
here's what I have an interest in".
But at school, but if you're going
to be a lay person by your game.
You know what I mean.
So for us, we had to, I think,
identify who that consumer is and
then give her a product
that she felt really excited about sharing.
So that sort of influences,
content and that sort of thing.
>> You kind of jump into that a little bit.
I'm always curious to see when games of this kind,
or something that talks about culture in that way,
is reflected in Black Twitter.
So like Black Twitter being,
what we all know black tweet is.
You know the factions.
We know the folks who are here or whatever side,
we know how that bubbles up real fast, real quick.
How of you kind of thought about those parts of,
both in marketing and also in the way
that we are creating culture on a consistent basis.
Right? New things are coming up in bubbling of new means,
new conversations, new ways of looking at stuff,
new people hate Bruno Mars.
There's a lot of conversations happening in
Black Twitter that we see popping themselves out.
Have you thought? What is that look like in terms of
creating new content packs
and things like that? Was that look like?
>> It is actually very unique,
we take a unique look at it for sure.
Analytics play a huge part in our game creation content.
>> Yeah.
>> So, it is very much something we think
thoroughly about because as you just mentioned,
you see how you do it [inaudible]?
>> Uh, huh.
>> People feel a way about that.
>> A little bit.
>> So obviously, it only makes sense for us to figure out
how to throw that in the next edition.
>> Well, always look at the data.
>> Yeah.
>> Always consider the data. Looking at Google Analytics,
looking at sort of what are folks having an affinity for?
>> Yeah.
>> What was it two years ago now?
We did a game, The Shade Room.
Who here followed The Shade Room?
You don't know the Shade Room?
But the Shade Room, I mean,
is single-handedly the biggest gossip site out there.
It's larger than TMZ, right?
In social media and everything with
18 million plus something followers and stuff like that.
So, but that right there is just a [inaudible] by just
looking at the data.
>> I'm also curious about,
so you're moving this fantastic game
and changing that into a BET show.
Or it's going to be reflected in the BET show.
>> It is the BET show.
Thursdays BET, 10:00 PM Eastern, 9:00 PM Central.
>> What is that been like?
Translating that over to this whole other genre?
This whole other medium?
>> Is my mic on? I don't think my mic is on.
>> I'll do my Oprah to you.
>> I got a whole lot to say about.
>> I know you do.
>> Okay. We're so old school model,
we know TV is changing.
Oh, I'm back on, okay.
So what I was going to say is,
for us, I think we wanted to start with an app.
We wanted to start sort of in the digital space.
We did not, because one of
the things that we've learned I
think in being in this space,
me just being a developer is like,
very frequently we start
and say, "Yo, let's build a app."
I mean, seriously the turnaround time for us getting
a card game up was much
shorter than me pilling out a ton of code,
which I still did by the way.
>> Right.
>> But I think trying to, TV is very interesting,
trying to get that right.
Because it's a different sort of dynamic with.
>> Today's climate.
>> Yeah, today's climate.
I think one and then two we're all about
the interaction as well.
So, how do you replicate that on a TV audience?
>> Yeah.
>> The good thing about is our ratings are great.
So, we feel good about that.
>> Yeah.
>> But I think the next step for us is
recognizing that we have this great IP,
great content, great trademarks.
I don't see really why there's not
like the BET of gaming for real.
So, if you're interested
in that you should come holla at us by the way.
>> It's me raising my hand.
>> Because seriously, I mean,
was BET sold to Viacom for $2.1 billion.
>> Right.
>> I know my mama plays games and I know,
>> Daily.
>> Daily. I know that our community plays games to time,
and there's an opportunity there.
Maybe the major players
in gaming don't necessarily understand that,
but why not take
this great IP that we have out here, right?
And move that to gaming.
So, I think that's something that we're looking to do.
>> I mean, that's been my dream as well.
>> Aggressively looking to do.
>> [inaudible] looking for gaming for black men?
>> But why not? Why not?
>> What are your thoughts about how
you want to share and give
back to the community that has helped
you be successful in the space that you've been?
When folks are, especially at a show like this,
where we are talking about a lot of
digital games and being in game spaces,
but most of the games that we wind up getting
to have started off in pen and paper form or card form.
When someone is like, "Hey,
can you all help me kind
of figure out what I want to do in this space?"
What are some of the things that you would
tell a young up and coming person
who's making games to kind of
think about ways to get in front of
people and ways to build out their dream game?
>> Ooh, that's a great question.
Fight for what you believe in,
be very aggressive and ambitious in what that vision is.
Whatever the vision is for the game you want to create,
be smart about it.
Definitely do your research,
but be aggressive about how you want to attack it.
>> Yeah.
>> Do not obviously,
put in something that's already in the marketplace,
that would make no sense.
Find great partners.
>> Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
>> You definitely need
a team to make dreams of this magnitude happen.
>> Yeah.
>> It is a family affair for sure.
>> Yeah.
>> Cause there will be ugly days,
there will be bad days.
You need a partner that is as aggressive
as you in pursuing the goal.
Jay, your thoughts please?
>> [inaudible] , Jay.
>> Yeah. You going to focus on who
instead of what. That's really important.
The same possibility for us to
do the work that we've done so far,
everything from manufacturing, to
fulfillment, to customer service.
>> Research, research, research.
>> Research, all that stuff,
we handle that ourselves.
But without having a good team,
it's really impossible to
have the wins that we've had, without a doubt.
So, me and Tish fit together like yin and yang.
>> Yeah.
>> For some different ways, we're opposite.
Things that I'm really bad at,
you're really great at.
>> I like to say Olivian Hawk,
but we'll go with that too.
>> Yeah. Focus on who instead of what,
cause you can't do the stuff alone.
Yeah. That's what I've to say. Keep it simple.
>> We have two more questions for you or
actually one more question and I'll you
pitch all the things to the people.
How dope is it to have a really dope,
I was about to say F word,
black business that you can tout and say,
"This is something that I own,
this is something that is ours." Go ahead.
>> You know what's fun? This is what's fun.
Being a part of the startup community and
seeing all these people who raise money,
who went on a business and were still around,
and saying, "Guess what?
We don't have any investors
and we got a ton of capi- I mean,
we've been paying a lot to Uncle Sam,
but that's kind of fun, right?
It's just saying like, you know,
the sort of model that
people have sort of built up in their heads.
>> Yeah.
>> For who and what a company should look like,
I would say, "No, that's not us."
Doing stuff like taking kids to see
Black Panther or hiring grandmothers to come in,
to help us with fulfillment.
Doing stuff for the community is us,
and we're still standing,
we're still strong. Still strong.
>> Nice. Nice, nice.
>> And more importantly, we're still our own bosses.
>> Yeah. That's so important.
Clap it up for that.
That's super important. Super important.
>> Which is crazy, because I [inaudible] just this morning.
But it's crazy like you'll see big wins in
the news and stuff is not what it appears to be, right?
Like that company has no capital or it will
be a situation where
they don't own any rights to anything.
When we came in and did relationship with Viacom,
retain a lot of our ability
to do different things and do really exciting things.
So, we feel good about that. God is good.
>> That's amazing. That's amazing.
>> You all supposed to say all the time?
>> Yeah. God is good?
>> You all missed that out.
>> All the time.
>> That's what I was saying.
>> Pitch your stuff to everyone out there.
Let everybody know where they can find
the game, where they can find the show.
>> You can find our products on Amazon and
a large Brick and mortar retailer soon.
>> Wooooh.
>> We're also on cardswallpeople.com
or blackcardrevoked.com for that stuff.
What else am I missing? TV show.
>> Yeah. BET 10:00 PM Eastern time.
Please tune in #BlackCardRevoked on Twitter.
Support, support, support.
We had a whole should night being planned out.
>> Oh, it was supposed to be like, come to
Black Card Revoked, and we're going to drop the mic.
>> Oh, I was going to say-
>> If you're tired of your CEO being all in the videos,
all on the records.
>> Oh, that's way better.
>> Come out at Black Card Revoked.
>> You scared the mess out of me.
[inaudible] I was like,
they have no windows to hang people out of.
>> Yeah, that's funny. No, but seriously,
here is the one of the things that's unique about us.
Every other company selling apps
did a diversity inclusion on after the fact.
We lead with that and
recognize that we're building games for women,
people of color, and the LGBT community.
So, that's what that looks like.
So, we're really excited about that.
If you're passionate about gaming,
if you have a passion about working with and
developing stuff for people who in a lot of
cases don't have products that speak to them,
come on holla at us, we're hiring.
>> Jay and Susan, thank you so much.
Everybody give them around of applause please.
>> Thank you for having us.
>> Thank you so much.
Really fantastic.
That was fantastic.
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