>>> ON THIS EDITION OF
"INDEPENDENT SOURCES"
PRESIDENT TRUMP.
WHAT'S NEXT FOR IMMIGRANTS
AFTER PRESIDENT TRUMP'S
DECLARATION OF AMERICA
FIRST DURING HIS
INAUGURATION SPEECH.
AND PROTESTING THE PRESIDENT.
IS THE MASSIVE SURGE
OF ANTI-TRUMP
RALLIES SUSTAINABLE AND
WHAT DO THEY HOPE TO ACCOMPLISH?
♪ [THEME MUSIC] ♪
>> "INDEPENDENT SOURCES,"
YOUR WINDOW TO THE CITY'S
ETHNIC AND THE IMMIGRANT
COMMUNITIES.
HERE IS YOUR HOST, GARRY
PIERRE-PIERRE.
>> AFTER DONALD J. TRUMP
WAS SWORN IN AS THE 45th
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES,
AT AROUND MIDDAY ON FRIDAY,
HE MADE IT CLEAR THAT THIS
WAS A NEW ADMINISTRATION
THAT WOULD IN HIS WORDS
ALWAYS PUT AMERICA FIRST.
HE COUCHED HIS SPEECH IN
PROMISES OF IMPROVING THE
COUNTRY'S PHYSICAL
INFRASTRUCTURE, BATTLING
TERRORISM, BECOMING
LEADERS IN SCIENCE AND
TECHNOLOGY AND LOOKING BEYOND
THE COUNTRY TO SPACE.
AMIDST THOSE MANY PROMISES
WAS ONE THAT STOOD OUT AS A
NOT SO VEILED WARNING TO
IMMIGRANTS AND REFUGEES.
HERE TO UNPACK SOME OF
PRESIDENT TRUMP'S SPEECH ARE
FREELANCE JOURNALIST NIDA
KHAN AND CUNY ASSOCIATE ADJUNCT
PROFESSOR, DR. DAVID KURANGA.
WELCOME.
>> THANK YOU.
>> BUT BEFORE WE START OUR
CONVERSATION, LET'S LOOK
AT A CLIP FROM THE INAUGURATION
OF DONALD J. TRUMP.
>> FROM THIS DAY FORWARD,
A NEW VISION WILL GOVERN
OUR LAND.
FROM THIS DAY FORWARD,
IT'S GOING TO BE ONLY
AMERICA FIRST.
AMERICA FIRST.
EVERY DECISION ON TRADE,
ON TAXES, ON IMMIGRATION,
ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS WILL BE
MADE TO BENEFIT AMERICAN
WORKERS AND AMERICAN FAMILIES.
WE MUST PROTECT OUR
BORDERS FROM THE RAVAGES
OF OTHER COUNTRIES MAKING
OUR PRODUCTS, STEALING OUR
COMPANIES AND DESTROYING
OUR JOBS.
>> WOW, THAT'S QUITE AN
EARFUL.
NIDA, LET'S START WITH
YOU.
WHAT DOES HE MEAN BY
AMERICA FIRST?
I MEAN, PRESIDENT OBAMA,
BUSH, CLINTON, ALL PUT
AMERICA SECOND?
>> RIGHT. EXACTLY.
THEY ALL OF COURSE PUT
AMERICA FIRST.
BUT I THINK HE WAS
BASICALLY JUST REPEATING
THE SAME MANTRA IN THE
SAME SPEECH HE GAVE ON THE
CAMPAIGN TRAIL.
BASICALLY, SPEAKING
DIRECTLY TO HIS BASE AND I
THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE WERE
LOOKING FOR MORE
CONCILIATORY WORDS OR
WORDS TO BRING IN PEOPLE
WHO DIDN'T VOTE FOR HIM
AND, YOU KNOW, WHO
PROTESTED THE NEXT DAY AND
A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO
OPPOSED TO HIM THE ENTIRE
WAY BECAUSE OF THE MANY
MISOGYNISTIC AND BIGOTED
STATEMENTS THAT HE MADE.
I THINK THEY'RE LOOKING FOR
THAT, BUT DIDN'T THAT GET IT.
IT'S AMERICA FIRST, WE'RE
GOING TO CLOSE DOWN THE
BORDERS AND CUT DOWN ON
TRADE AND IT'S OUR PEOPLE
FIRST, FIRST, IMMIGRATION
WILL BE REDEUCED.
JUST A REPETITION OF WHAT
WE SAW DURING THE CAMPAIGN
CYCLE.
>> DAVID, YOU KNOW,
THERE'S A LOT OF FEAR AND
UNSETTLED MINDS
IN VARIOUS COMMUNITIES IN
THIS COUNTRY.
WHAT DO WE EXPECT IN
TERMS OF IMMIGRANTS AND
REFUGEES?
>> HE'S GOING TO MOVE
FORWARD ON HIS AGENDA.
I THINK IT'S VERY CLEAR FROM
THE STATEMENT THAT HE GAVE.
HE IS POSITIONING HIMSELF
AS THE ANTI-GLOBALIZATION
CANDIDATE AND HIS
CONSTITUENCY ARE PEOPLE
WHO FEEL MARGINALIZED AND
HAVE BEEN BY GLOBALIZATION.
AND IT'S PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF
THE MAJOR CITIES, PEOPLE
WHO ARE IN THE
COMMUNITIES --
>> LET ME PICK UP ON THIS
POINT BECAUSE I THINK IT'S
REALLY IMPORTANT.
THIS IS A MAN WHO HAS
BUSINESSES ALL OVER THE WORLD,
AND HE HAS A $2 BILLION DEAL HE
TURNED DOWN, AND HOW
DO YOU TAKE THAT AND SAY
YOU'RE ANTI-GLOBALIZATION
AND YOU MADE YOUR MONEY
BECAUSE OF GLOBALIZATION?
>> YEAH, I JUST GOT BACK
FROM DUBAI AND I SAW THE
TRUMP ESTATE IN DUBAI.
HE IS DEFINITELY EXPOSED
ALL OVER THE WORLD.
YOU KNOW, BUT HE WAS ABLE TO
DISASSOCIATE HIS RECORD --
HIS OWN BUSINESS RECORD,
HE ACTUALLY SAID, LISTEN, I DO
BUSINESS ALL OVER THE
WORLD, I CAN MAKE MONEY, I
CAN DO IT FOR AMERICA TOO.
SO AMERICA CANNOT LOSE, AT
LEAST.
>> LET'S GO BACK TO THE
FEAR WE WERE TALKING ABOUT.
IS IT REAL OR --
>> I DON'T THINK IT'S MISPLACED.
RIGHT KNOW, SOME THINGS
ARE THOSE -- THERE IS -- LEGALLY
THERE'S A HURDLE BETWEEN
HIM AND SOME OF HIS AGENDA.
THE OBAMACARE REPEAL THAT
PEOPLE ARE FOCUSED ON A LOT.
THERE ARE A LOT OF HURDLES
BETWEEN HIM AND THAT AND
ACHIEVING THOSE OBJECTIVES.
ON THE IMMIGRATION, THOSE
HURDLES DON'T EXIST,
BECAUSE THE LAW IS ON HIS SIDE.
NOW THAT THE APPARATUS OF
STATE IS IN HIS HANDS, SO
THE ONLY THING SEPARATING,
YOU KNOW, US FROM FULL
IMPLEMENTATION OF SOME OF
THE THINGS HE HAD
ARTICULATED ON THE TRAIL,
WAFFLED AROUND A LITTLE
BIT, THE LAW IS ON HIS
SIDE, THE APPARATUS OF
STATE IS AT HIS HANDS AND
WHAT HE'LL DO WITH IT IS
UNCLEAR AT THIS POINT.
SO, YOU KNOW, IT COULD GO
ANY RANGE OF -- YOU KNOW,
POSSIBILITIES AT THIS POINT.
>> SO WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE?
DHS AT HIS DISPOSAL.
THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT,
AND YOU KNOW, HE HAD
SPECIFICALLY TARGETED
MUSLIMS AND WANTED TO BAN
MUSLIMS.
CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THAT IN TERMS
OF THE PRACTICALITY OF IT?
>> YEAH, JUST TO PIGGYBACK
OFF OF YOUR QUESTION HERE
ABOUT THE FEAR, BECAUSE
THE FEAR IS VERY REAL IN
TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, WE SEE
A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT WERE
EMBOLDENED AFTER HE WON.
YOU KNOW, WE SAW THE RISE
IN HATE CRIME ACROSS BOARD
AND THEN YOU LOOK AT WHO
HE'S NOMINATING AS WELL.
YOU HAVE JEFF SESSIONS FOR
AG WHO'S, YOU KNOW, -- HE
WAS AGAINST THE
VIOLENCE -- THE VIOLENCE
AGAINST WOMEN'S ACT.
HE VOTED AGAINST THAT.
WHO IS IN --
>> YEAH, I -- HIS HISTORY IS
LONG FROM THE '80s HE
COULDN'T GET CONFIRMATION
FOR A JUDGESHIP.
>> RIGHT.
THE MUSLIM COMMUNITY, LOOK
AT TILLERSON, RIGHT?
SO HE DURING THAT
CONFIRMATION CHEARING
WHEN HE WAS ASKED IF HE'S
FOR THE MUSLIM REGISTRY
AND HE SAID, I NEED MORE
INFORMATION BEFORE I SPEAK
TO THIS.
IN MY MIND, I THOUGHT THIS
CAN ACTUALLY STILL BE A REALITY
THAT THEY CAN TAKE IT EVEN
FURTHER.
ALL IT TAKES IS GOD FORBID
SOME SORT OF TERRORIST
ATTACK THAT HAPPENS AND
WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY'LL DO.
I THINK THE MUSLIM
COMMUNITY IS WORRIED THERE
WILL BE SOMETHING.
THIS IS HOW THEY SAY A
SLIPPERY SLOPE.
YOU CAN HAVE A REGISTRY AND
START ROUNDING PEOPLE UP.
NOT LIKE WE HAVEN'T DONE THIS
IN HISTORY BEFORE.
>> TILLERSON BASICALLY YES TO
THAT QUESTION.
HE BASICALLY SAID YES.
>> RIGHT.
>> YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND,
WE HAVE SEEN AN INCREASE
IN GRABBING THE POWER,
PARTICULARLY IN SECURITY
AND PRIVACY ISSUES.
THAT WAS A YES.
HE ANSWERED THAT QUESTION.
>> NO, I AGREE.
I AGREE.
BUT I'M SAYING THAT HE
SAID -- HE BASICALLY
DIDN'T ANSWER THE
QUESTION, LEAVING IT OPEN,
YES, THIS COULD STILL HAPPEN.
VERY MUCH A REALITY THAT
HE COULD IMPLEMENT, THAT THE
ADMINISTRATION CAN IMPLEMENT.
HE DIDN'T ANSWER THE QUESTION.
HE SAID I NEED MORE INFO. SO --
>> I TAKE THAT AS A YES.
>> I THINK HE TACITLY --
AND NOW THE POWER THAT THE
PRESIDENT HAS ON THE ISSUE
OF IMMIGRATION, WHO CAN
CHALLENGE THIS POWER?
>> POST -- I THINK POST
9/11, ALL THIS PATRIOT ACT
STUFF, NOBODY AT THIS POINT.
THIS IS THE THING.
WE HAVE SEEN THIS
CONSOLIDATION OF POWER IN
THE EXECUTIVE OFFICE OF
THE PRESIDENCY AND IT'S
RATCHETED UP TO THE POINT
IT'S VERY HARD TO CHECK,
YOU KNOW, WHAT THEY DO
WITH THAT POWER.
AND YOU MAY -- EVEN WHEN
THEY'RE SAYING THAT
THEY'RE NOT GOING TO DO
SOMETHING, WE NOW KNOW
THEY DO IT ANYWAY.
SO THEN THEY'RE NOT SAYING
THAT THEY ARE -- THEY'RE
NOT GOING TO DO SOMETHING.
THAT'S A YES.
BASED ON WHAT WE HAVE
SEEN, THAT MEANS -- THAT'S
WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO.
>> WHAT ROLE CAN
THE MEDIA, WHO ROLE DOES
THE MEDIA HAVE TO PLAY TO
CHALLENGE THIS -- THIS
UNCHALLENGED POWER?
>> I THINK THE MEDIA IS
GOING TO HAVE TO DO ITS
JOB INSTEAD OF BEING A
MOUTHPIECE FOR GOVERNMENT
OR JUST GIVING PEOPLE
BILLIONS OF FREE AIR TIME,
I THINK THEY'RE COMING
AROUND TO THAT NOTION
BECAUSE THEY SAW SUCH A
PUSH BACK FROM THIS
ADMINISTRATION ALREADY.
I MEAN, THE PRESS
CONFERENCE HAPPENED THIS
PAST WEEKEND, YOU KNOW,
THIS LAST WEEKEND, WHERE
HE JUST EXCORIATED THE
PRESS AND TALKED ABOUT US
MOVING THE WHITE HOUSE
PRESS CORPS FROM THE WHITE
HOUSE TO SOMEWHERE OUTSIDE
AND TALK ABOUT HOW THEY
NEED TO BE DRUG TESTED.
JUST THE MISINFORMATION
THAT'S BEEN GIVEN OUT.
SO I THINK THE MEDIA --
THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA IS
FINALLY REALIZING OUR JOB IS TO
TELL THE TRUTH, TO PUSH
HARDER AND WE HAVE TO DO THAT.
EVEN MORE SO IN THIS
ADMINISTRATION.
SO I'M HOPING THAT, YOU
KNOW, THE MEDIA EXECUTIVES
DO LIVE UP TO THAT NOTION
AND DO DO THAT.
>> WELL, WE'RE HOPING
ACTUALLY FOR THE PRESS WHO
HAS BEEN UNABLE TO DEAL
WITH THIS SITUATION.
>> YEAH.
>> WE'RE DUE FOR OUR FIRST
BREAK.
WE'LL HAVE MORE WITH MY
GUESTS RIGHT AFTER THIS.
>>> THANKS FOR STAYING TUNED.
SO DAVID, WE SPENT THE
FIRST HALF OF THE SEGMENT
TALKING ABOUT NATIONAL ISSUES.
WHAT ABOUT INTERNATIONAL?
WHAT ARE SOME OF THE
IMPACTS OF THIS NEW
PRESIDENT ON A WHOLE HOST
OF ISSUES AND POLICIES?
SO LET'S START WITH THE
MOST IMPORTANT ALLY, GERMANY.
>> IT IS -- IT'S UNCLEAR
TO SEE HOW HE'S GOING TO
IMPLEMENT HIS POLICY WITH
ALLIANCES WITH NATO AND
WHAT HAVE YOU.
IT'S INTERESTING THAT A
LOT OF HIS NOMINEES DON'T
EXACTLY SHARE HIS VIEWS ON
SOME OF HIS POSITIONS, YOU
KNOW, HIS AMERICA FIRST VISION.
ANTI-GLOBALIZATION VISION.
SO IT'S UNCLEAR, YOU KNOW,
THAT -- HOW THAT'S GOING
TO TRANSPIRE AND HOW --
BUT HE CLEARLY HAS A
VISION TO BREAK WITH THE
WAY THINGS ARE BEING DONE.
AND I WILL EXPECT TO SEE
SOME DEVIATION FROM
PARTICULARLY ON TRADE, ON
ALLIANCES, ON U.S. INTERVENTION
IN, YOU KNOW, ABROAD.
I DO EXPECT TO SEE, YOU
KNOW, A ROLL BACK ON THOSE
FRONTS.
>> IN SOUTH ASIA, WHAT ARE
PEOPLE SAYING, THE GOVERNMENT?
HOW ARE THEY TAKING THIS?
BECAUSE I MEAN, HE'S
BASICALLY -- HE HAS SAID
THAT, YOU KNOW, MORE
COUNTRIES SHOULD HAVE
NUCLEAR WEAPONS, YOU KNOW,
IN PAKISTAN AND INDIA.
>> RIGHT.
>> SO WHAT'S THE MOOD
INSIDE SOUTH ASIA LARGELY?
>> I THINK IN GENERAL
PEOPLE ARE ON EDGE AND
CONCERNED ABOUT WHICH
DIRECTION HE'S GOING TO GO.
HE'S SO UNPREDICTABLE.
HE HAS SAID I DON'T LIKE
PEOPLE TO KNOW MY NEXT
MOVE, I LIKE UNPREDICTABLE.
ON THE BACK END, THERE ARE
PEOPLE WHO ARE HOPING
HE'LL SUCCEED SO AMERICA WILL
NOT BE AS POWERFUL AS IT WAS.
LOT OF PEOPLE, IF THEY ARE
ANTI-AMERICAN, THEY WANTED
THIS TO HAPPEN.
SO I THINK THERE ARE A MIX OF
EVERYTHING ACROSS THE BOARD.
AND JUST IN GENERAL ON THE
INTERNATIONAL FRONT, I
THINK WHAT WE ALSO -- LIKE
HERE IN THE U.S. FAIL TO LOOK
AT WAS HOW THIS HAS BEEN
HAPPENING AROUND THE WORLD.
RIGHT?
YOU SEE IT'S SORT OF THE
CONSOLIDATION OF WHITE POWER.
LIKE WE WERE TALKING IN
THE GREENROOM ABOUT LE PEN
IN FRANCE AND, YOU KNOW,
TRUMP IS MEETING WITH
THERESA MAY, THE PRIME MINISTER.
LIKE THIS ENTIRE HOLDING
ON TO WHITE POWER.
WE ARE SEEING THAT ACROSS
THE GLOBE.
HE'S JUST -- YOU KNOW,
ANOTHER WHATEVER YOU WANT
TO SAY IN THAT MOVEMENT WE
SEE EVERYWHERE.
IT'S ALL INTERCONNECTED.
I THINK PEOPLE FAIL TO
REALIZE THAT AS WELL TOO.
>> DO YOU AGREE, DAVID
THIS IS BASICALLY TRUMP IS
A FACTOR OF THE WHITE
NATIONALIST WORLDWIDE
MOVEMENT?
>> I DON'T SEE IT THAT WAY
AT ALL. I MEAN, YOU
LOOK AT DUTERTE IN THE
PHILIPPINES HE'S
ANTI-GLOBALIZATION TOO.
>> WELL, KIND OF --
WELL --
>> YEAH.
BUT REMEMBER, THERE ARE
PEOPLE WHO WIN IN
GLOBALIZATION,
PARTICULARLY IN THE CITIES
AND THE URBANIZATION, BUT
THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE
LOSING IN THIS.
AND I THINK TOO MUCH
POLITICAL DECISIONMAKERS
IGNORE THAT.
THE CITIES WERE GROWING.
THEY IGNORED THE PEOPLE WHO
WERE BEING MARGINALIZED IN
ALL OF THIS AND THEY'RE
REAL PEOPLE.
THEY ARE THE PEOPLE WHO
PEOPLE LIKE LE PEN, PEOPLE
LIKE TRUMP AND DUTERTE
ARE REPRESENTING.
SO I DON'T BELIEVE IT'S
ENTIRELY -- I THINK
SIMPLIFYING IT AS AN ETHNIC
NATIONALIZATION I THINK IS
OVERSIMPLIFICATION.
NATIONALISM IS VERY REAL,
BUT ENTIRELY -- I THINK
THAT'S AN OVERSIMPLIFICATION.
>> I DON'T THINK -- YOU
CAN HAVE BOTH THINGS AT
THE SAME TIME.
>> YES. OF COURSE.
>> BUT WHAT YOU WERE
SAYING LIKE INNER CITIES
SUCCEEDING AND CERTAIN
PEOPLE BEING IGNORED,
THAT'S A REALITY AND
THAT'S WHAT ALL THE
LEADERS HAVE TAPPED INTO
BUT IT DOESN'T NEGATE THE
FACT THERE IS THIS MOVEMENT.
AND RUSSIA IT'S PART OF
IT TOO.
THE MAINTAINING OF WHITE
POWER, WHITE ALLIANCES,
ANTI-GLOBALIZATION.
I THINK YOU CAN HAVE BOTH --
>> IN THE COUNTRIES IN THE
EUROPEAN COUNTRIES,
POPULATIONS, THERE ARE A
FACTION IN THAT, BUT
THEY'RE NOT THE ENTIRE
GROUP AT ALL.
THE GROUP IS MUCH BROADER
THAN JUST THAT ELEMENT.
I KNOW PEOPLE WANT TO
EMPHASIZE THAT ELEMENT AND
THEY ARE THERE.
THE COALITION EXTENDS I
THINK BEYOND.
THAT'S WHY THEY'RE ABLE TO
WIN ELECTIONS AND OTHER
THINGS LIKE THAT.
IT'S NOT JUST THOSE PEOPLE.
I THINK TRYING TO LABEL
THEM AS THAT AS ACTUALLY A
COUNTERPRODUCTIVE THING.
BECAUSE IT LOOKS ELITIST.
BECAUSE THESE TYPE OF
PEOPLE, IT LOOKS ELITIST
TO THEM.
YOU'RE JUST DOING THIS --
>> GETTING MY HEAD AROUND
THIS CONVERSATION BECAUSE,
YOU KNOW, WE ARE TALKING
ABOUT GLOBALIZATION AND
THOSE WHO HAVE LOST BUT THE
WINNERS ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE
NOW IN CHARGE OF THE COUNTRY.
SO THEY CARE MORE ABOUT
THE COUNTRY'S INTERESTS OR
THEIR OWN SELF-INTEREST.
>> EXACTLY.
>> NONE OF THEM HAVE A TRACK
RECORD FOR FIGHTING SO HOW ARE
THEY DOING IT RIGHT NOW?
>> WELL, DONALD TRUMP
HIMSELF EPITOMIZES PRIVILAGE.
HE'S A BILLIONAIRE, HAD HIS
OWN JET, WENT TO
BUSINESSES AROUND THE WORLD.
AND YET HE PORTRAYED
HIMSELF AS THE UNDERDOG.
AS, YOU KNOW, THE MAN OF
THE PEOPLE AND HE'S THE
ANTITHESIS WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT.
THE WAY THAT HE'S BROUGHT UP.
THAT'S WHAT YOU SEE IN A
LOT OF THE LEADERS.
>> AGAIN, WHO'S STOPPING
THIS ANTI-WORLD ORDER?
I MEAN, WHO'S GOING TO --
>> THE PEOPLE.
THE PEOPLE, YOU KNOW --
>> WHO ARE THE PEOPLE?
WHAT DO YOU MEAN?
>> BY THE MAJORITY OF THE
POPULATION THAT'S FOR
INTERCONNECTIVELY.
FOR MULTICULTURALISM.
FOR THAT --
>> THEY'RE BEING ATTACKED
ALL OVER FOR AWHILE.
IN EUROPE, FOR
MULTICULTURALISM, THAT'S
PEJORATIVE WORD IN EUROPE.
>> THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO
DON'T FEEL THAT WAY IN
THOSE COUNTRIES TOO.
THEY'RE SPLIT LIKE WE ARE.
WITH THE PROTESTERS, THIS
IS THE FIRST TIME WE SAW
SUCH A MASSIVE GLOBAL AND
SIMULTANEOUS PROTEST
AROUND THE WORLD.
THEY WERE ON EVERY SINGLE
CONTENT, NOT TO MENTION
THE NUMBERS HERE --
>> 50 STATES.
>> BETWEEN 3 AND 4 MILLION.
YOU SAW THAT IN MULTIPLE
COUNTRIES.
>> YEAH.
>> A LOT MORE THAN AT THE
INAUGURATION.
>> LET'S NOT GET INTO THE
NUMBERS GAME.
>> BUT IT WAS IN THE CITIES.
THIS IS THE THING. PEOPLE IN
THE CITIES-
>> BUT PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER.
YOU HAD PEOPLE COMING FROM
MIDDLE AMERICA TAKING
BUSES, GETTING ON FLIGHTS,
CARPOOLING.
>> BUT ALSO, DAVID, TO HIS
POINT, A LOT OF THE RURAL
AREAS CANNOT ACCOMMODATE A
LARGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE AND
THEY DON'T HAVE THE
INFRASTRUCTURE.
BUT ANYWAY, I THINK IT'S A
SIDE ISSUE IN TERMS OF --
BUT THE QUESTION AGAIN IS,
WHO IS GOING TO STAND UP
FOR THE WORLD ORDER?
OR IS THIS GOING TO BE THE
ANTI-GLOBALIZATION
MOVEMENT?
WHAT DO YOU THINK?
>> WELL, POLITICIANS OUT
THERE THAT ARE STILL IN
FAVOR OF FREE TRADE AND
STILL IN FAVOR OF MORE
INTEGRATION WITH RESPECT
TO THE WORLD COMMUNITY.
IN SOME SENSE, I THINK
TRUMP IS TO A DEGREE, BUT
AS LONG AS CERTAIN
BENCHMARKS ARE MET,
IF THEY'RE NOT MET OBVIOUSLY
HE CAN'T SUPPORT THAT.
AND WE'RE SEEING A
RESPONSE FROM CORPORATE
AMERICA AND CORPORATIONS
WORLDWIDE THAT ARE JUMPING
TO THIS -- BECAUSE A LOT
OF THEM TOOK ADVANTAGE OF
THE SYSTEM AS IT WAS.
AND DIDN'T REALLY EXERCISE
A CORPORATE GOVERNANCE AND
BETTER BUSINESS PRACTICES.
AND THINK ABOUT THE PEOPLE
THAT ARE AFFECTED BY THEIR
DECISIONS.
NOW THEY'RE SEEING A
BACKLASH AND KNOWING THAT
THE HAMMER IS ABOUT TO
FALL ON THEM.
THEY'RE ALREADY JUMPING TO
CHANGE THE WAY THEY'RE
DOING THINGS.
CREATING JOBS, IN AREAS
THAT HAVE FELT MARGINALIZED.
BEFORE THE HAMMER FALLS ON
THEM.
>> ISN'T IT REALLY
JUST PANDERING FOR THE
CAMERA, BECAUSE THE
ECONOMY WORKS MUCH MORE --
IT'S MORE COMPLEX THAN THAT.
>> EXACTLY.
YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFUL IN
TERMS OF WHAT'S ACTUALLY
DONE AND WHAT IS JUST
THEATER, RIGHT?
SO IT'S LIKE EVEN WITH, WHAT WAS
IT -- WITH CARRIER.
LIKE "X" AMOUNT OF JOBS
WOULD BE SAVED BUT THE
NUMBER WAS MUCH LESS AND
THEY'RE DOING THIS WORK
FOR THE PEOPLE AND KEEPING
THE JOBS HERE, BUT THE
PROOF WILL BE IN THE PUDDING.
WHAT IS HE ACTUALLY GOING
TO BE ABLE TO DO AND WHAT
IS REALITY?
WHERE IS THE TRUTH, AND THIS IS
BACK TO THE MEDIA, WHO IS
INTEGRAL IN THIS?
WHAT IS THE TRUTH AND WHAT
IS MERE JUST WINDOW DRESSING?
>> WELL, WE'RE GOING TO
END PRETTY SOON BUT I WANT A
PREDICTION A YEAR FROM
NOW, WHAT'S THE WORST
THING THAT CAN HAPPEN?
>> OH, I'D RATHER NOT SAY IT.
>> YEAH.
>> YOU KNOW? YOU KNOW?
I'D RATHER NOT SAY.
I THINK WE'RE ENTIRELY --
IT'S ENTIRELY POSSIBLE THE
LEVEL OF PROTEST THAT WE
SAW IN --
>> LAST WEEKEND?
>> IN THE VIETNAM ERA -- THAT
WASN'T A PROTEST.
THE PROTESTS IN THE
VIETNAM ERA COULD RETURN
TO THE UNITED STATES WITH THE
AMPLIFICATION OF SOCIAL MEDIA.
>> YOU DON'T THINK THIS WEEKEND
WAS A PROTEST?
>> NO.
IT HAS TO BE SUSTAINED.
THE OCCUPY WALL STREET WAS
SUSTAINED.
THE PIPELINE PROTEST WAS
SUSTAINED. IF IT'S SUSTAINED-
REAL PROTEST IS REAL
SUSTAINED PROTEST.
>> YOU CAN'T SAY THAT -- I
TOTALLY DISAGREE.
THIS WAS ABSOLUTELY A PROTEST.
OF COURSE IT HAS TO BE
SUSTAINED AND NOT ONLY
THAT, THE QUESTION WILL
BE WILL IT BE ABLE TO
TRANSFORM THEMSELVES INTO A
MOVEMENT LIKE THE TEA PARTY
OR WILL THEY BE LIKE OCCUPY
WALL STREET AND GO AWAY.
LIKE WILL THEY GET
ELECTED OFFICIALS, YOU KNOW,
PEOPLE THEY WANT IN OFFICE.
>> SO WHAT'S YOUR WORST
CASE SCENARIO?
>> I DON'T KNOW.
THAT COULD BE ANYTHING
FROM REPEALING OBAMACARE
TO ENFORCING THESE
IMMIGRATION LAWS TO
STARTING A MUSLIM REGISTRY.
THERE'S A LOT I HOPE DOES
NOT HAPPEN.
SOME KIND OF -- I'M SCARED
TO SAY WHAT'S THE WORST
CASE SCENARIO.
>> UNFORTUNATELY, WE HAVE
TO LEAVE IT THERE.
THANKS TO MY GUESTS, FREELANCE
JOURNALIST NIDA KHAN AND CUNY
ASSOCIATE ADJUNCT PROFESSOR
DR. DAVID KURANGA.
WHEN WE COME BACK, CAN THE WAVE
OF ANTI-TRUMP RALLIES
CONTINUE AND ARE THEY
BECOMING MORE ORGANIZED?
>>> WELCOME BACK.
HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS TOOK
TO THE STREETS IN CITIES ACROSS
THE COUNTRY OVER THE WEEKEND
IN A SERIES OF ANTI-DONALD
TRUMP RALLIES.
THESE PROTESTS HAVE BEEN
COMMON PLACE SINCE MR. TRUMP
BECOME PRESIDENT-ELECT
BACK IN NOVEMBER.
ORGANIZERS COMPLAINTS RANGE
FROM MR. TRUMPS BIGOTED AND
MISOGYNISTIC REMARKS,
TO HIS PROPOSED IMMIGRATION
POLICY AND
THE DISMANTLING OF THE
AFFORDABLE CARE ACT.
NOW MANY STAND BEHIND THE
NOT MY PRESIDENT BANNER.
BUT AFTER FRIDAY'S SWEARING IN,
HE IS PRESIDENT.
SO WHAT NOW
FOR THESE PROTESTERS?
I SPOKE TO GABBY SPEAR,
OF THE JEWISH WOMEN FOR PEACE,
ONE OF THE GRASS ROOTS
ORGANIZATIONS THAT
PARTICIPATED IN THE RECENT
WOMEN'S MARCH TO FIND OUT MORE.
THE DAY AFTER THE
ELECTION, THERE WAS AN
EVENING AFTER HILLARY
CLINTON HAD CONCEDED.
ALL OF A SUDDEN, PROTESTS
SPROUTED ACROSS NEW YORK,
CALIFORNIA, IN OTHER PLACES.
THE PRESIDENT-ELECT
QUICKLY DUBBED THESE
PROTESTERS AS PROFESSIONAL
AGITATORS.
HOW CORRECT WAS HE?
>> I THINK THAT IN A
SUBVERSIVE WAY THAT WE
HOPE TO BE PROFESSIONAL
AGITATORS FOR THIS AND FOR
NEXT FOUR YEARS AND FOR
WHATEVER IS TO COME AFTER
TRUMP'S PRESIDENCY.
>> CAN THIS BE MAINTAINED?
>> I THINK THAT AS JEWISH VOICE
FOR PEACE, WE HOPE THAT WE ARE
GOING TO CREATE AND MAINTAIN
CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE IN VERY
CREATIVE WAYS.
I THINK THAT I AND OTHER
MEMBERS FEEL THAT MAYBE
PROTESTS CANNOT BE THE
ONLY ANSWER, BECAUSE IF
WE'RE GOING TO PROTEST
EVERY RIDICULOUS THING
THAT TRUMP SAYS, EVERY
TIME HIS CABINET MEMBER
SAYS SOMETHING, IT WILL GET OLD.
SO WE'RE LOOKING AT WAYS
TO DO STREET THEATER,
WE'RE REALLY ACTIVE IN THE
MOVEMENTS REGARDING
PALESTINE, SO YEAH, WE'RE
LOOKING AT NEW AND
CREATIVE WAYS.
>> LET'S GO BACK TO
SOMETHING YOU SAID EARLIER
REGARDING HOW IT STARTED.
IS IT NOW MUCH MORE OF
THESE PROTESTS -- THIS
PROTEST MOVEMENT, IS IT A
MUCH MORE COORDINATED
AFFAIR, WHERE WE HAVE
ORGANIZATIONS LIKE YOURS
AND OTHERS WHO ARE COMING
TOGETHER TO ORGANIZE THIS
PROTEST?
>> I THINK THAT THE
ORGANIZATIONS THAT WERE AT
THE WOMEN'S MARCH AND I
THINK THE ORGANIZATIONS
THAT WILL CONTINUE TO BE
AT THESE MARCHES ARE ONES
THAT HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR
SOME TIME.
AND I WOULD SAY THAT THERE
MAY BE ARE NEW GROUPS, NEW
GROUPS BEING CREATED.
BUT I WOULD REALLY ENCOURAGE
THOSE GROUPS -- THOSE
PEOPLE TO GO TO WHERE THE
SPACE HAS BEEN CREATED.
GROUPS LIKE JEWISH VOICE
OF PEACE, BLACK LIVES
MATTER, WE WORK WITH
PALESTINIAN ORGANIZATIONS
LIKE STUDENTS FOR JUSTICE
IN PALESTINE.
THERE ARE WAYS THAT WE CAN
ALREADY DO -- ALREADY
CONTINUE THE WORK THAT HAS
BEEN DONE.
>> AS YOU MENTIONED, AFTER
A WHILE, PROTESTS GET PRETTY
REDUNDANT, WE DON'T COVER
THEM ANYMORE AND PEOPLE
HAVE JOBS THEY HAVE TO
ATTEND TO.
SO WHAT'S THE OTHER
STRATEGY BESIDES YOU
MENTIONED THEATER AND ALL THAT.
BUT DO YOU HAVE A CLEAR
AGENDA YOU WANT TO SEE HAPPEN?
WHAT IS A PROTEST ABOUT?
BECAUSE I KNOW LIKE YOU
SAID, WE DON'T -- SOME
PEOPLE HAVE A LOT OF
ISSUES WITH THE NEW
PRESIDENT AND SO WHAT IS
IT ABOUT THAT YOU'RE
TRYING TO GET AT WITH
THESE PROTESTS?
>> WELL, I THINK THAT
OUR -- ORGANIZATIONS HAVE
COME TO TERMS THAT TRUMP
IS PRESIDENT, WE'RE NOT
GOING TO CHANGE THAT.
HOWEVER, WE'RE LOOKING TO
HOLD HIM ACCOUNTABLE AND I
THINK REALLY WE'RE WORKING
TO KIND OF BE VISIONARY
ABOUT IT BECAUSE THE
THINGS THAT WE'RE ASKING
FOR, YOU KNOW, QUITE
FRANKLY MIGHT NOT HAPPEN.
BUT WE'RE SPEAKING OUT IN
SPITE OF THAT.
>> THEY WON.
IT WAS CLEAR THAT THEIR
AGENDA WAS, AND SO WHAT
ARE WE GETTING OUT OF THE
PROTESTS?
>> I THINK FOR ME, IT'S
LIKE AN ACTIVE LIKE
RADICAL HOPE.
AND LIKE THE HOPE THAT
THEN YOU'RE SPEAKING OUT
WHEN YOU ARE -- PUT PRESSURE.
WE KNOW THAT CROWDS MAKES
IT HARD FOR THE MEDIA TO
SAY NO ONE WAS THERE.
NO ONE CARED.
YEAH, WE'RE LOOKING FOR
THE PRESENCE.
>> IS THERE ANY STRATEGY
IN PARTNERING WITH THE
DEMOCRATIC ESTABLISHMENT
SINCE IT IS ESSENTIALLY AN
OPPOSITION PARTY.
IT'S IN THE MINORITY, IT HAS
RELATIVE POWER AND IT'S
LOOKING -- OR IS IT A
CHANCE OF SOLIDIFYING SOME
KIND OF RELATIONSHIP WITH
THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY?
>> I CAN'T SPECIFICALLY
SPEAK TO THAT, BUT JEWISH
VOICE FOR PEACE WAS
PRESENT AT THE DEMOCRATIC
NATIONAL CONVENTION.
DEFINITELY PUTTING
PRESSURE ON BRINGING
PALESTINE INTO THE
FOREFRONT OR PUSHING IT A
LITTLE FURTHER INTO THE
DEMOCRATIC AGENDA.
I WOULD SAY THAT WE'RE
SEARCHING FOR WAYS BEYOND
THAT THAT
WE HAVE LOST TRUST IN THE
WAYS THAT DEMOCRATS AND
REPUBLICAN SIDE -- AND
YEAH, WE'RE LOOKING FOR
SOMETHING WAY BEYOND THAT.
>> ONE LAST QUESTION.
PRESIDENT OBAMA IN HIS
FINAL NEWS CONFERENCE SAID
WE'LL BE OKAY.
DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT?
>> I -- I CAN SAY THAT --
I DON'T KNOW.
I CAN SAY THAT WITH A LOT
OF PRIVILEGE THAT MAYBE --
PRIVILEGE AS A WHITE
PERSON THAT I'LL BE OKAY,
BUT I DON'T THINK A LOT OF
MY BLACK FRIENDS AND
MUSLIM FRIENDS AND QUEER
FRIENDS AND PALESTINIAN
FRIENDS ARE GOING TO BE OKAY.
AND THAT'S WHO I'M FIGHTING FOR.
>> THANK YOU, GABBY SPEAR,
THANKS FOR JOIN US.
>> THAT'S OUR SHOW THIS WEEK.
THANKS FOR STAYING TUNED.
UNTIL NEXT TIME, BE
INDEPENDENT MINDED.
♪ [THEME MUSIC] ♪
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