We are sitting here with Mr. Slinsky
We will discuss vegetable farming
based on the balance between IDEALISM and TECHNOCRACY
We will cover the theory behind the IDEALISM, like the question WHY?
Why he chose this method of cultivation with all its aspects?
Mostly, we will cover the technology and techniques he uses.
Lets start with the question:
Why not to succumb to IDEALISM or to TECHNOLOGY?
Lets start with the term IDEAL - ISM
All terms ending with -ISM create problems
Ecological farming rose out of the consumers fear for their healt when they discovered the details of how industrial agriculture typically produces food that they consume.
The IDEAL was created out of the fear of ones health,
and as I say: Our IDEALS, we get from "above", and when we combine them too much with our MIND, we produce IDEAL-ISMS
And IDEALISM always appeals to IDEALISTS
In my case, ecological farming was in the middle of my focus right out of University,
when I started working in the local state farm (grange), as the vagetable farmer.
Where we produced vegetables with conventional methods that were available at that time
which practicaly ment that we had a group of manual workers with very low level of education
and technology that was adjusted from big scale agriculture machines to vegetable cultivation, nothing special
So, for me it was a combination of expectations with the possibilities we had at hand
In those times, I was experiencing a significant inner discomfort, when
we were spraying cabbage against the Cabbage Butterfly with Phosdrin - Organophosphate
which I had to announce 48 hour before at the local state committee so that the beekeepers could lock up the bees
and had to check the tractor driver every 30 minutes for abnormal pupils dillution
That's when my inner conflict was that we are producing vegetables as an important factor of health with the use of war-like poisonous substances
So, practically I couldn't realise the ideals I had
There was a plan I had to stick to.. I was just a part of the wheel and I was supposed to follow orders and not make troubles
My inner conflict became unbearable (being in between my ideals and the reality of what I could practically implement) when..
the political regime changed.
My conflict was: I wanted to become a vegetable farmer since the 6th grade in elementary school
than graduated from university, but in reality it was not possible
The state farm stopped vegetable farming because it was mandatory in the previous regime, but economically not profitable.
So after the regime changed, first thing that was canceled was vegetable farming
I didn't know if I should continue as a vegetable farmer and HOW to do it if I want to survive
That was the time when lots of ecological IDEALS were coming alive
Activist like "Animal Freedom", "For Mother Earth" and many other organisations,
concerned with all kinds of issues from Ecological Agriculture to Energetics,
but in contrast with the activists I met, I was a professional farmer
and the great enthusiasm around excluding agrochemicals was in my case confronted with the visualization of HOW to implement those ideals
on a big enough scale and with all the issues like weeds or infections,
dealing with soil cultivation in a way I could physically handle and that would economically be sustainable
So, in contrast to my friends the activsits,
as a practical human being, first thing I was concerned with was:
Agro Technics
so that there is no soil degradation
and so I could physically manage it with my economical possibilities
So, first thing that came into my mind was of course a horse with a plow,
but considering the details and asking older farmers.. and having the luck that I met experienced horse men..
A friend told me: For horse plowing special horses were used and borrowed,
as it was unique to teach a horse to step straight in line like a camel
it was rare
Secondly, more practically, I could do some work with a horse, but it would need a stable,
food, and I would have to take good care of it,
and my agriculture education had nothing to do with animals, I knew
that, I cannot even imagine it. Secondly it is very demanding
and it does not cover all the aspects of Agro Technology
The second Idea was a tractor which I had the honor to meet on the fields since I was 6.
It didn't even provide a solution in conventional vegetable cultivation,
as a standard tractor could be used only for basic soil preparation, seed planting and sowing,
but then, with a wide range of vegetables, in the growing phase, it was basically unusable
which was the reason I had 72 manual workers I had to shout at like the police and motivate with a big stick in my hands
And what about the small tractors? Vari system?
Yes , I have a colleague already in pension who has damaged joints from the vibrations...and he only had a land of 20 acres.
I even tried it myself, holding on to that machine on a cornfield..
until I got used to it, I cut out a third of the crop...
All in all, a combustion engine did not align the ideal with the practical implementation
And so I found the solution in some literature:
so called "Agrotechnical bridges"
it totally covered the issue of soil degradation caused by machinery driving on soil
Unfortunately, this technical solution that existed was:
2 bridge support carriers moving through the fields on railways,
were technically very complicated and so financially very expensive
For a Small Family Owned Farm which is my Ideal, on which I today insist:
Vegetable cultivation in bio quality is practically possible only in a large number of family owned farms,
for which the technology must provide economical return on their investment in the horizon of 5-6 years
which with conventional tractor based approaches was not possible,
because, biological cultivation is ensured mostly by a wide variety of sowing procedures
which in vegetable farming means growing such a variety of plants,
that one would need an enormous industrial park which would raise the costs exponentially
and so in order to make it economically sustainable the scale would have to be so big,
that all eco - bio principles would stay only in theory.
In short, considering all ideals conflicting with my Pragmatism I came to the conclusion that:
Agricultural bridges is a resolvable and possible answer,
but that it would have to be constructed differently than it was common.
And common was a long and straight field, which if I want to work on,
needed two synchronised moving entities, so that the machine would stick in line,
a construction which would allow the changing of working apparatus,
and ensure a steady row width, needs to be operated by a computer system and hydraulic..
Therefore, the constructions I saw in the world at that time in England and Israel
were manufactured in a mass production
The one from Israel in 1985 costed 400.000$ and the one from England 85.000Ł ,
but the effect of those bridge constructions was so interesting
so to overcome the financial aspect, I changed the shape of the field, so I could manufacture,
realise and operate it by myself. And so I created my "AGRO-KRUH" (AGRO-CIRCLE) system,
where a bridge construction moves around a fixed point and cultivates a circle-shaped field(plat)
And so the synchronisation of two moving units was no longer needed,
but for this new system that moves in a circle, I needed special tools that were not commercially available
First problem I encountered was that the classic plow was impossible to use because of the low speed of the unit
and also because the standard plow, in my opinion and in the opinion of other eco farmers in the agriculture business,
is a very controversial method of soil cultivation as it turns the soil in such a way that normally occurs
only at natural disasters such as earth quakes or land slides flipping the soil upside down
Moreover, there was one study (research) which I cannot quote right now, but it
said that a plow had a a worse effect on the microbiological life in the soil than the use of pesticides
In my case, even though, until now this debate is not clear, to plow or not to plow,
considering our mechanics the plow was eliminated automatically,
because we couldn´t handle it energetically and our kinematic construction was too high anyway,
so we were considering a solution which would take a lot of time..
so in my case my ideal was confronted with reality,
combined with pragmatism and technocracy, after 20 years,
ended so, that today we have a complete Agro technical solution,
which allows to cultivate the soil in alignment with all the
aspects of ecological agriculture.
Economically it is possible to implement for
such an amount which the majority of Slovak population should be able to afford
A disadvantage, or necessity is that
In the beginning, before it becomes standard and the small farmers gain some political power,
we can only apply it in warm climates
So all in all, in a short answer,
about the balance between Idealism and Technocracy
it is needed, as I use to say:
For it to be sustainable you need to have the the "5P´s"
(1) Conviction, that it is worth it, and that so far, there is nothing better in this cost range,
Conviction, that its worth to stop conquering and exploiting the world and start to inhabit the land.
(2) Knowledge, as it is not enough to disagree with what is wrong in the world,
but acquire knowledge to change and implement even such things that others so far doubt or don´t understand
(3) Property (Land), that will have special meaning for you, important and connected to you
the problem here is that land ownership in Slovakia is fragmented,
but at the same time combined into large fields
which makes it impossible for small owners to even access their land.
Even those idealist that access their land... I can see it in the 3rd Agro-Kruh system implementation..
One important aspect is not considered: "Generational Continuity"
it is not enough, being an enthusiastic eco farmer, without my son or grandson continuing my work...
acquiring the "genetics of a peasant/farmer"
meaning that they will do it voluntarily and with pleasure no matter what comes
Otherwise it is schizophrenic as the implementation takes so much effort
and no one knows, so to speak, the time or place, when we will die
the generational continuity is the 2nd aspect of (3)Property
I repeat: 1 Conviction, 2 Knowledge, 3 Property, 4 Work
(4) Work: being able to physically endure, and arrange the balance
of biology, chemics and physiology, economy and ideal
In my opinion, farming in bio quality,
is not possible with rental workers (employees)
that is why the technology is designed, so I can do all the work by myself
embracing the role of a single soldier
because after my experience at the state farm I knew
that vegetable farming with employees is very demanding. Always controlling and policing them,
from watching how they work, to preventing them to steal half the yield
and eko farming it is also not possible
Even the volunteers I was offered, by my experience, I say:
Better tell me what kind of vegetables you want, how much and when,
lets combine the money
So I can develop the technology that will do all the hard work and we will have time for philosophy
Because the way you imagine it,
I would have to explain the work for 2 hours
you would understand 5% , crate 90% damage
you thinking that you have helped me
and me wanting to hunt you down in the woods and break your arms
That is why I have to be able to do it alone!
The father, his son whom he teaches,
and the holy father that helps and protects us..
..conviction, knowledge, land, work and (5) Money
These 5 (P´s) we need to have combined
When I was starting to teach this they stroke my ego
how noble of me it was to put the (1)Conviction first and (5)Money last,
but I say NO! It is not a pyramid or hierarchy, it is a circle
if one of five is missing, it will not work and spin
Money is not first or last
They are essential, because all those things I need, I have to buy
..all those mechanical components
So the financial aspect is most delicate
usually it being the first obstacle when creating the communities
Everything else seems to be manageable, Conviction - Yes we have it! Knowledge - We´ll learn it!
Land - somehow we´ll get it! Work - Yes! I am willing! but Money - we don´t have,
and others say: No money until I see results
which will come in 6 years and that nobody is willing to risk
Money is always the first moment that separates the dirt from the seeds.. usually the idealists leave first when money is needed
And those, more convinced idealists with money pay, but when work is needed they also leave
So in our case, from 633 members of our group, only 8 were willing to pay
So money is not first or last, they are essential and ensuring a balance
Conviction, Knowledge, Land, Work and Money in a circle that creates a balance
Concerning money.. After meeting the past away Karol Koncek I was introduced to the term Permaculture and
Community Supported Agriculture
and when he gave me the book "Permacultura v kocke"
there was a whole chapter on Community Supported Agriculture
About people who don´t know how, don´t want to or are not able to grow vegetables
Group around their farmer and support him financially
My colleague was once working for 2 years in USA asking what I want as a present from there that he made some money..
So I asked him for a book about Community Supported Agriculture
there were described several ways.. The one I liked the most was:
where people collect finances and allow the farmer to buy technology for bio farming
and to make it interesting for them, in our current economical conditions (theories)
I adopted the theory where the bio vegetables would be for the same price as the conventional
Meaning, that the interest rate of their investment is in the form of a lower price (same as conventional vegetables)
And then in our experience, after 3 years
After some ideological differences, me being sometimes a choleric,
And being raised in the East, supporting more the East than the West.. after some geopolitical events,
when I said that Putin handeled the GMO agenda very well,
I was accused of being a Russian spy..
The problem came up:
They stopped to buy vegetables from me
and we had to deal with it.. so how to overcome political differences without creating problems
So the final change in the system was:
that the back payment of the loan is not tied to a specific time but
the amount of vegetables in form of a 20% discount
So if you consume a lot of vegetables, in 6 - 8 years you should have the loan paid back
and if you don´t buy the vegetables from us, you don get anything, because the money is spent on the machinery
that is how we handled the financial aspect as I described it extendedly, but as it is a crucial aspect when creating a community
As there is a saying: Money always was and will be, but is not now... just as we experienced
So I dont know if thats a good answer but this is my
way of balancing Ideal and Reality
I thing it is a great intro
covering a little bit the sowing process
a bit of technology, a bit of Community Supported Agriculture
Yes it is a complex
It may seem not related but people around Permaculture should be able to see the connections
ignoring some of my emotional anecdotes..
Sure. Now we could address the technology a bit more
Could you say something about the sowing process or cultivation processes?
And then perhaps leading into the technology as it is connected
Yes it is, one without the other does not exist
We are working on processing our knowledge into a duplicabe form that could be shared commercially
maybe in a form of a Franchise which demands to have exactly tested and methodologically presentable processes
While working on this we run into a question:
if it should be about sharing the technology or the knowledge and education about eco vegetable farming..
I said yes it is all combined and there will be one outcome:
A model family farm for bio vegetable farming in a closed agrotechnological and economical model that is practically tested
So I can describe it in more detail
Bio farming is only possible with a large number of small family farms
Socially and economically the agriculture farming.. or lets say vegetable farming, so it will not get too vague
It is only possible on small family farms where the connection to the soil is personal
In our case Agro-Kruh system is on a 2 hectare field
where we need to ensure the rotation of cultivated vegetable families
in a way that on one circle, the same family is grown only once in every 6 years
That's why it is only possible in warm climate where we can safely cultivate a wide variety of vegetables
to ensure the rotation of the vegetable families
That means 15 circles
where vegetables are produced in a 4 way rotation system
First year: Legumes
Second year: Cruciferous vegetables
Third year: root and bulbous vegetables
Forth year: Fruiting vegetables
Interrupted by: Phacelia plant (blue-purple tansy) and Clover plant (Trifolium repens) in Cruciferous crops
And in Slovakia we like potatoes, so the fifth segment are potatoes
So 12 agro circles are vegetables and 3 agro circles are potatoes
We had a little issue wit potatoes because they were the same subcategory as tomatoes and peppers
Tomatoes and peppers are quite rentable as vegetables
you can get a good revenue out of it
the issue being the right synchronisation of these crops and the solution was the interruption by Phacelia
...so there, it is grown not every 6 years but every 3 years..
Nevertheless it is not tested yet as that crop is being re-cultivated at this moment
But most importantly, is that we are surrounded by conventionally cultivated crops
But happily we are separated by natural elements
On the left is a forest, at the back is the river and on the right, there are again some high trees and bushes
So I can only hear them from far when they are working
Either way, when there is a high concentration of Rapeseed
when biologicaly growing legumes we are not able to deal with Phyllotreta Beatles without chemicals, which can ruin the crop in 3days
it is possible mechanically but it would be too demanding and ...
Nevertheless, the base of the Agrokruh system is a small family farm
On a 2 ha field wit 15 circles
one circle is 1017 m2
they are cultivated by the agrokruh machinery which is a modification of a bridge carrier system
which moves around a central point of the circle crop
its arm length is 18m, the diameter 36m, and so the surface is 1017m2
usable area without the manipulation areas is 1000m2
which makes it very easy to calculate the seeds and plants we will need
and the fact that they are precisely numbered and marked makes it easy to stick to the rotation plan
control with clear overview of the whole
so even after 40 years we know when what was grown according to the number of the circle
Which is important because sometimes the farmer does not remember exactly what was grow where 3 yers ago..
the rotation principle is very important considering facts like the size of the leaves, size of the roots and the demands on the soil..
So clearly defined points on the crop and good evidence is key
... 2ha field with 15 circles..
and to economically sustain, every 3 circles are being cultivated by one mechanical arm
in a triangle next to each other
as employees are not rentable being a high burden on a small family farm..
the purpose being that I can handle it my self (thats why the arm is only 18 m long which makes it optimal)
....
a 6 m arm would be 112 m2
a 12 m arm would be 480 m2
a 18 m arm is 1017 m2
..it is always +6 m because you can buy only pipes that are 6 m long..
24 m long arm would be more than 3000 m2
but then physics and gravity would make it 4 times more heavy, demand a stronger motor, and I could not move it myself
so 18 m being optimal economically etc
.. those 3 circles are operated by one arm that can be moved between them around the point where two of them meet
and one person can do it
it is being powered by an electric engine
from the point of view of the end consumer ..
..some esoteric-theoretic-platonic-earth-lovers may discuss this with me..
..is the cleanest source of energy.. even if there is also damage to the enviroment
if you allow some cynicism: it gets rid of all amateurs quite quickly
in some case they will get a shock but in a worse case you are "done"
with the use of any kind of combustion engine..
..I saw it with my own eyes..
manipulation with petrol and oil on the crops create serious damage that is invisible
and the maintenance compared to the electro engine..
So it is a electro engine and the most user friendly and the cheapest version is a
three phase motor with a short anchor bar. It is the best solution,
tested here on the first prototype that now is 20 years old and the motor is still intact never had any problems
a three phase electric engine with a short anchor bar with a power input of 750 Watt (3/4 kW)
Either way, the circling arm of the bridge needs specialised machinery to handle all aspects of farming
Instead of the plow we developed a spade machine that is able to dig in soil hard as concrete
Spading in a way that does not damage the soils structure
Thanks to a lever system it digs vertically into the soil and pushes it away
contrary to the plow, which pushes through the soil, we push away from the soil into the air, with no compression and soil damage
and then drops it just as it was, leaving space for the air to come in.
And that is energetically the most demanding machine that can spade 30 cm of the hardest soil
with a power input of 1,5 kW
So energetically, in my opinion, it is the best solution so far.
However, we can run into the argument that it is quite expensive
Because the parts are an unique single production, the parts are quite expensive, as we need to use only highest quality,
because electricity is nothing to joke with
In debates, some people say that the costs are almost comparable to a tractor
In those cases I say:
Tractors are being mass produced and the agriculture industry works economically sustainable,
only by pushing the negative effects onto the next generations or onto third world countries
..by externalising their costs, even their future costs, and damaging the environment and the soil,
so economically the numbers are clearly misleading
So as we were talking with academics, the compression of soil by driving on it, increases the energy demands and costs..
It was accepted, but the next argument was: What to do with the unused soil in betwwen the circles?
So as you saw in the first seconds of the video..
Go and ask the Bees and Butterflies if this part of the eco stabilising zone with Lavender, Savory and Salvia is unused
If they could, they would applaud me with their wings,
because after the harvest of Rapeseed and the Cereals which leaves the area empty and sterile,
they still have food, and are able to continue their work in the nature.
So with those triangels in betwwen the circles are not an issue anymore..
Third most common argument is:
It is too slow. It may be interesting but it will not work.
So I say: If you want to die tomorrow, than yes it is too slow
so lets look at the time aspect:
With the use of plows, unorganised driving on the crops, the soil is being compressed and the soil Degrades and Erodes,
and the best part of the soil: the top soil, is carried away by wind or water
so if we talk about time:
I can spade a 10 Are field in 30 cm depth in 6-7 hours and the energetic demand is 12 kWh.
With a combustion engine it is much more interesting.
A tractor can do the work with all its negative implications we discussed, in about 20 minutes..
..I would take 7 hours
But, lets look at the bigger picture:
2,5 cm of top soil naturally develops about 500 years.
Intensive Agriculture Technology carries away the top soil..
.. acording to some scholars : 2,5 up to 5 cm
So to compare: If I can in 20 minutes carry away 2-5 cm of top soil that was developing for 500 years..
Is it quick enough?
Here appears another issue.. bio farming as a Marketing tool..
in order to play a game with the customer, where he does not even understand the difference but if it has a nice package,
people are willing to pay more for something that only I know how I grow
Sooner or later the truth will come out and another Ideal will be killed
So before the idealists start doing it lets have the appropriate machinery ready
so we can physically deliver on the bio quality promise
economically sustainable, so we can have the same price as conventional vegetables
..all the controversial issues are theoretically solved, practically tested
and now only the subjective implementation is needed..
Certain is only the death and the taxes
so if we don´t start working on it ASAP..
keeping in mind that the result will come in about 6 years
I am afraid that the soil degradation.. on which I am an expert by now..
.. will become unsolvable even if we try very hard.
So, lets stick to the Ideals but implement what we can, here and now, and not in some time in the future,
in an idealistic time, which does not even exist.
The time is NOW... as some professor used to say...
I would like to address two more topics:
Re-cultivation of soil, if you start on a heavily weeded crop like you did.
Secondly, you mentioned soil erosion. How do you address that?
Lets start with erosion
Imagine a farm of 2 hectares with 15 circles where we grow vegetables
and in between those circles are little un-cultivated triangle areas
in the beginning when we have lots of other problems and little money
all we do is cut the commonly called weeds, right after they bloom, so they do not spread
Just with the plain eye, you can see on this type of sandy soil
this type of landscape is much more erosion resistant compared with a 40 ha crop
which after the harvest there is nothing for months
Secondly, especially now when there is such a drought..
we do not cultivate the crop at once, which means
mechanically intensively we cultivate only there where it is mostly needed, so we can finish the delicate work with our hands (planting)
Practically, it means that when the planted rows (lines) are 60 cm apart.. with all sorts of vegetables..
we cultivate only a small area exactly where the seed line will be which I know exactly
because it is given by the kinematic movement of the bridge arm moving in a circle and the linear movement of the apparatus on the arm
it creates a spiral line
So from the staring point on the edge where I stick in a pin
we attach an apparatus that, in a non invasive manner
like a spade .... big or small.. now we use only the little one
to prevent soil erosion we process only a 20 cm wide stripe into which we are able to sow or plant
and 40 cm stays uncultivated
mainly because, when planting we will move on this soil
and now lets consider that
80% of the soils compression is caused by the first stepping on the soil
so if I wouldn't know exactly where the sowing line will be I would have to cultivate the whole crop
but since we know the exact starting point and the spiral line
so we can save energy to mechanically cultivate only the sowing line
until the soil balance will be perfect which I am not sure I will see alive
It is said that complete renewal of the biological life in the soil can be expected after two cycles are complete
which in our case would be 12 years
that would be the idael
so to deal with erosion we combine deep spading with flat spading and pitch fork spading
the flat spading only goes 5 cm deep
so when there is big drought
the two different capillary systems created by different soil cultivation mix
and water is distributed differently and soil erosion only occurs on the cultivated part but the wind blows it straight on the part next to it with wild vegetation
somehow it works :)
Now lets address the re-cultivation of soil.
To reclaim your property is always a problem and even when you get back some piece of land
on which you would like to fulfill your ideals, the soil is so devastated that even conventional agriculturists don´t know what to do with it as it was also our case
a field, totally covered with an invasive weed: Canadian Goldenrod
a situation conventionally unsolvable without the use of toxic herbicides
because it is spreading through the roots
so if you try to mechanically destroy it, or even worse, push it more into the ground with a plow,
it will grow back 10 times more strongly and so it was there
So we were facing a big problem of how to get rid of the weed without the use of chemicals
And so thanks to our spading apparatus which vertically digs into the soil
pushes about 20 cm of soil
and leaves it there vertically just as it was before
thanks to that, we could pull the weed out with all its roots.
In the beginnings, before we had the flat spade we had to hit the roots covered with soil so we could remove it
one circle took us about 6 weeks, but while working so hard the brain usually also works very hard, so we came up with idea of the flat spade
where we installed different kind of blades - pitchforks, which pulled the roots out of the soil for us
removing them with a rake apparatus and carry them away
Unfortunately or Fortunately :)
after Canadian Goldenrod, we opened the doors for Quack Grass (Elytrigia repens)
Unfortunatelly the problem with Quack Grass was
that after the rake system we still had to remove it, quite hard work, which took us about 3 week
one circle! so the next we left for next year.. a very labour demanding work
so again we developed a different kind of machinery which would separate the soil from the roots which were stuck strongly together
and make the machine stop quickly
another technical problem that we were able to to test this year of which you can see a video on YouTube
so today we can do it in 2 days and not 3 week..
it is a crazy mechanism that cleans the blades as they move against each other up and down..
Beautiful
and all is being collected at the edge of the circle which we would take out of the field at first,
but if we would leave it on the crop and just turn it so it dries in the sun,
and we can clearly see that where it was left on the crop, the tomatoes are 300% more healthy and vital
than on the crops where the soil is uncovered and you can see the sand under which is gravel
..long term increasing the organic matter in the soil
Mechanically, we solved a physical problem of a crop that was totally covered with weeds
A solution that is clean
Not pretending to be a bio farmer, who was not caught using chemicals
we need to look for clean solutions and test them
so we don´t get stuck in theory and just talk and preach about it... that it may be possible
so much for erosion and re-cultivation with the Agrokruh system
Re-cultivation is the most crucial moment which will test your will and determination
the physical labor is so intense that it can kill all your ideals
In our case it was fanaticism and proving our belief
Either way, one can not overcome ones shadows, but as my son continues my work, it gives me confidence to say that I have not yet seen a better system
If it does exist, I am open for debate..
but not like those who read something on Facebook that in Switzerland they do it differently
Or, Ey! I have seen those circles from a plane when I was in USA
Lets make it clear: I didn't invent growing food in circles
The circle with a fixed point solved the high cost of the machinery that brings automation without damaging the soil, so that I can do it here and now!
So I did not invent the system but I implemented it the best I have seen so far
And I am willing to share my knowledge with anyone who has real interest to implement it
Unfortunately, it is only possible in a warm climate and a flat field
And so if we create a large enough number of small farms based on a community supported system which connects the farmer with consumer families
I have an ideal of a politically stronger group that could stand against higher powers
Because the support of small farmers nowadays is just a populistic idea
What kind of power do the small farmers have nowadays? None.
It is people who are so convinced by their truth, that they are willing to endure hard physical work
and social exclusion.
The rest are all agro-businessmen who are doing it because of the subsidies that still exist
And regarding sustainability principles or permaculture ideals
or the health benefit of quality production,
Well, nobody will fight against it, but neither will they implement it on their costs
And so we need to create working models, where you can prove that it is wort it.
Because to have great food, for a good price, with people you resonate with..
That is luxury that only a few can effort..
so far we pay for it with money, we earn by work we do not enjoy or agree with
under people we sometimes even hate, and it doesn't create a good atmosphere in the society
and that makes us choleric or apathetic.
These topics,
will be addressed on the 2nd and 3rd day of the conference, but it is great you touched upon them..
But lets get back to when you mentioned the circles in the USA and the irrigation system.
How do you work with water? How do you prepare for droughts?
This year the situation is very critical!
..even last year..
we borrowed a machine last year and could not use it because we spent all our time watering the crops
Irrigation on our sand soil here,
calls for repeated irrigation with low quantities of water,
because any attempt to create a reserve in the soil would just fall through the soil and take with it most nutrients
so ideally, on this type of soil it is dripping irrigation,
but in my case I have two problems:
Firstly, it is very costly.
Secondly, the mechanical disposal of weeds as I talked about, makes it impossible to have the tubes in the soil..
commonly mulch is used.
Ideally paperboard (carton)
otherwise, also commonly used is a polyethylene foil
under which you put the dripping tube, so no weeds grow there
but either way, the dripping system and the mulching foil is a big problem after the season,
because they are being burned or being recycled where they are also being burned or...
An interesting solution was attempted by a group that wanted to recycle papers from offices and convert them into a shape similar to the carton..
.. until they told me the price, which was 6 times more expensive than the polyethylene foil..
.. it was economicly unsustainable
The dripping irrigation being very costly and there is the need to filter the water and the issue of weed regulation..
So it was eliminated, but remember that some kind of dripping system is the best solution
A second way, is a so called soaking system (or slow soaking), which is not so expensive,
but much more water demanding.
And so considering that our Agrokruh system can precisely follow the sowing line,
I combined the benefits of both irrigation systems, so that:
the water pipe leads from the bridge to just above the soil
just above the root system. Where with the circling of the bridge the pipe stays just underneath the leaves
so the leaves do not get wet and there is no risk of any fungal infections
and considering that my system is working so "slow" but automatically
it gets directly to the bottom, so I can water my crops, even in high temperatures and strong sunshine
as the water gets directly to the roots and does not touch the leaves
and instead of micro holes that would require a filtration system because of sediments and algae in water
I have a 2,5 cm pipe , so I dont have these problems
And compared to the soaking system, I only use about 1/4 of the water.
Which was an old system from Bulgaria,
where you would create a groove which you fill with water and let it soak.
But our type of soil, 70% of water would just fall through..
So our irrigation system moves around the circle,
at the bottom is a container that distributes the water, which we can show you later..
and from those it goes to the bridge and the pipe..
So we can set it up, turn on and wait for 6 hours.
For 6 hours it works on those crops where the sowing line is one single spiral..
Peppers, salads, the cabbage family..
Than with tomatoes we have a different system
Where the problem is finding a subfamily that would be resistant to a special infection
And so to minimise the risk of such infection, we need to allow enough air ventilation
Which means that we do not sow tomatoes in each line (each 60 cm)
And so, we skip each 3rd line of the spiral
So the space between the lines are 60, 60, 120cm, leaving more space for the air
which also leaves us space for the collecting box while harvesting the yield
In the beginning of the grow cycle, we plant in those empty spirals short term plants like salad
Just as this year, but unfortunately the rabbits and deer got word of it and ate it all..
So this type of irrigation system requires us to be there not to water the empty line
unless the salad is still there.. but once it is harvested, it is not fully automated, we have to sit there and move the bridge every once in a while
With pumpkins, we only sow in every third line so we need to water every 180 cm
So we walk behind the bridge and hold the pipe in the hands
taking only 1,5 - 2 hours
and so we save a lot of water and time
Those systems that require less water are also being powered by less demanding engines
So, if the whole fa rm is in process, all five bridges running, it is a 2 kWh engine
An irrigation system physically not damaging and economically sustainable.
Always looking for the balance of biological, technological and economical ideals.
Thats what it is all about
Once I start to prioritize one it will suppress another and will get back at me sooner or later.
And where do you get your water from?
This area is more or less ideal
I am separated from conventional agriculture and also from people,
so I dont have to listen to that many subjective attacks..
Some people have a strange way... if you do something differently they come and irritate you
And that was quite problematic for my choleric nature
Here, to be honest water is abundant
Just here behind the forest is the river "Maly Dunaj"
Unfortunately it runs by the Slovnaft refinery and runs through an area that is heavily contaminated
so using its water on an eco-farm is quite questionable
Secondly, to pump water from an public river would have to be taken care of legislatively,
but more importantly, we would have to leave the pump at the river and I doubt that it would stay there until morning
Fortunately, the previous land administrator had build a water well
and there should be enough water..
So, we use the well but we need to heat the water and deal with high levels of Iron and Manganate.
So, with a Civic Association called ArTur, we had built a seminar building,
with a little artificial lake in front
We pump water from the well on the roof of the building, from which it drops as a waterfall from a pipe into the lake
And the impact mixes the water with oxygen eliminating the iron and manganate physically.
The water falls on the North side of the lake and on the South side we created
a flat area with gravel, where the water is only 30 cm deep,
heated and stationary.
The fish and water weeds enrich the water with nutrients, which is beneficial for the plants...
..enriched with organic matter from those living organisms..
Optimal from what was available here.
As there is no single solution for everybody..
As one of the Permaculture principle is: Optimally using the resources available at hand.
So that we do not take too much from the nature, but also not being too ascetic and scared to use the resources of the land
Always seeking the balance and using the local resources optimally
And so in the irrigation system we use the water which is abundant
That being the reason, why I sometimes, quite emotionally insist, that we start on flat land,
reconnecting to our land and soil, on the most yielding areas,
So we can control it emotionally, economically and technically
because we had a unique source of drinking water underneath..
..2 years ago, an attempt to build a gasoline-pipeline from Austria straight across it, almost succeeded..
And now again a problem with a toxic dump-yard near Bratislava
Big risks, but lets not get into it right now
Lets just say, there is big pressure coming from organisations concerned with short term profit for a small group of people
willing to destroy all that the population has left,
our soils, our water and our social connections..
Thats the reason that drives me to look for working ways to solve these problems
Unfortunately, in my opinion, there is no way to solve these problems through politics
OK, well.. but not to finish so negative..
Can we try to sum it up?
..some main key points of the process. If I, as a potential farmer, would want to implement your system,
What to be aware of? What to do? How to prepare? Who to contact?
OK, lets discuss a real model that we are implementing... and than an ideal model that we are working on:
The real model works..
To start, as a small farmer, is only sustainable,
with high yield vegetables, in an ecological way
Ensuring the rotation of a wide spectrum of vegetable families - once every six years
The farm must be in a warm climate ideal for corn, to be able to produce a wide range of vegetables.
So in the case of Slovakia: Danubian Lowland and South East of the Zemplin Lowland
an area of 2 hectares
And some more complicated things which can eliminate even those in good climate conditions:
Public electricity connection
Because Photo-voltaic power is possible, but it is still economically unsustainable and technically not user friendly
Still dealing with too many difficulties with cheaper parts and
the more expensive parts are simply not affordable yet.
So again: Electricity and a good road, leading to the property.
If you have this, you tell us that you are ready to start..
I have the land that, after review will be concluded as suitable..
Then you need to create a group of customers that can say upfront what kind of vegetables they want, how much and when.
We have a special calendar for that..
Then after collecting this data,
a group plan is created, based on the planned consumption and calculated sales.
Creating a group big enough to ensure a sale of 24000€
which according to our calculations provides... if he is able to produce it and the customers buy it,
..provide, in the first 8 years a net income of 500 - 700€
anything below that creates social discomforts..
Even that, after a talk with a reporter from Bratislava she said that if her husband would come home with that money she would throw him out of the window
But as we know, what there is a reason to kill, is in the East only a wish
And so, even my family is able to stick together with this income..
Afterwards when the group of customers is created and declares to buy the planned amount of 24000€
Follows the phase of community work where, they give the farmer a financial loan, from which he can buy the technology
With which he will be able to produce vegetables in bio quality for the same price as the conventional,
which is seen as the interest rate of his investment.
Avoiding a situation when money is handed out in a blind belief that it will be used wisely...
My father used to say: One has to be honest, because from a stolen pig nobody ever got fed..
And I know from experience that also money from funds do not solve anything and when the money ends also the project ends.
So to complete the circle: the money invested, needs to come back in a nominal value,
which means that the consumer gets bio vegetables in the price of conventional vegetables
and the farmer is paying back the loan in the form of a 20% discount.
So, if you are able to find such a group, have the money ready, we make an agreement with me,
later an organisation will do it more professionally...
A licenced contract about the use of the Agrokruh trademark, where he gets the know how, the education and a guaranty of control, that everything is used according to our standards.
And if he doesn't follow the standards and agreements we will announce it.. but fortunately nothing like that happened yet..
We are still duplicating only the first farm, actually the second, but this one is being done more officially with a contract.
The first was based just on a gentleman agreement but the situation developed.. and time has shown that
it is difficult to demand something that was not clearly agreed
and is creating problems..
Now we have developed a professional supplier system,
enabling us to assemble the farm in three months from the agreement.
So the first year, the customer group is created and the money is collected,
in September, October and November we build the components.
The next year they are implemented and by the third year the production starts and the consumer gets a wide range of bio vegetables in conventional prices
With the risks that have to be accepted, because it is done under the stars, in an environment which is quite aggressive.
So there is no guarantee that what was sown will be harvested. And you have no right to demand it.
Like I mentioned: salad eaten by rabbits or deer, infected cabbage or freezing in late spring..
That is the moment that is very hard to explain to somebody living in the city,
but it is crucially important for them to understand, that the food is not a given, just by demand.
It is an expectation... maybe I sound a bit pathetic..
..an expectation that GOD loves me enough that he allows me to have some food.
That, with the current state of mind: impatience and fear,
is crucial for a society to understand, that it may not be certain, but we will do all we can to do it..
..to be certain is impossible, but it is achievable..
in this case I am able to declare what I want and to patiently work to achieve it
Everything else is just Marketing that sooner or later will be uncovered.
Thats it.
OK, just one more question:
How did you convince your son to continue?
Well, that is the most important: I did not.
It is impossible, nobody could do that
He tried different things.. with his friends..
I use to joke that puberty is, when the child asks: How could such stupid parents have such a genius child?
At some point the child has to leave the nest..
..even say: I do not agree with my father..
What I had to figure out, in the first place was, if he could take it mentally: working on a field
So as I am not a surgeon because when I see blood I faint instantly, some will not stick their hands in dirt.
There is nothing you can do about it.
I took the opportunity.. being the first officially registered eco farmer.. that he could spent his civil-military duty on my farm.
So I told him: Martin, I only have you and I need to know if the generation continuity is possible with you
You have to do your duty somewhere either way, so it is better to do it here than anywhere else..
Here on the field, 24 hours, in the rain, in critical situations, so you can see what it takes,
and so that I can see if it is not killing you, and you will leave your crazy father behind.
He also tried construction jobs and came back
The key being that I did not pretend anything and he saw exactly what it takes ..not hiding anything..
he saw, and I told him as well, out of experience.. that
helping on a construction.. your value is like one half of an extension cord for the cement mixer..
And there you have to obey and work, under maybe an even bigger idiot than you are, if you want to work for another.
My father used to say: If a man stands on his land and work it by himself, nobody will be commanding him..
..maybe he will not aim very high, but he will be a free man.
Today, I can proudly say that he does it voluntarily and with joy, so that I know it is OK, even if I am gone tomorrow..
So to sum up, you can not convince anybody..
You have to do what you say and hope he will understand it and continue..
Fortunately, nowadays an eco farmer is socially more accepted than before..
..a farmer/peasant is not the synonym for a primitive anymore, which helps a little.
Always being on the field, withdraws you from the society,
you have to get along with yourself.
Fortunately, now I am almost sure that he will continue. He even tried the foreign world..
Here nothing is for free, and he knows that only what he does will provide benefits
.. not betraying somebody, but connecting with a group and moving this idea forward in a functional way..
It seems that it gives us power to continue...when you believe in something, you have to pursue it.
no conditions like: if it doesn't work by Friday I will do something else. You have to stick to it.
Just as I did, when I quit at the state farm and all my machines were destroyed for unknown reasons.
Even the judge said I was right but by the time the trial ended, the farm was privatised and bankrupt and I could not claim my rights..
but I continued, even in unimaginable circumstances, I said, Martin, you have to continue..
19 years ago, I told your Mother: I have to leave that state farm. Either I will kill somebody or somebody kills me..
She asked: What will we do? I said I don´t know, but I know what I can´t do anymore.
If I would have told her: Marina wait, 19 years, money will come from Japan, a piece of land from Bratislava..
and I will make circling machines that will do all the work for us. They would put me in a Madhouse
And look it happened. I didn´t know how.. I just knew what I don´t want anymore
All I wanted to say is that: you have to decide what you want and pursue it no matter what.
I am not sure if you can copy it, but fortunately, here it worked.. so continue with patience.
Thats it, Thank you.
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