Follow me.
It's a trick door.
This is a... This is a Christian thing.
You don't know where the door is, you just have to...
Have faith, and you find it.
Extreme faith! (Laughing)
That is pretty extreme.
♪
A wise theologian once said, "You've got to pray.
You've got to pray just to make this day.
You've got to pray. Pray!"
Christian comedy is one of the biggest things going right now.
It's a profitable business, and it sounds like an oxymoron.
I personally am fascinated by it because I used to do stand-up,
from '98 to 2006 as a secular comedian.
But I used to open for a Christian comic on the road,
and he would make incredible amounts of money
performing for churches.
So that's why we're here today in small town America
to explore stand-up comedy's church circuit.
What would Jesus do?
Probably an impression of Christopher Walken.
KLIPH: I know there are plenty of successful
Christian comedians out there.
(Laughing)
But when I mention this to people,
they all ask me the same thing.
(Laughing)
Are they funny?
To start tackling this question, I'm heading back to the city
where I began my stand-up career, and I'm gonna visit with
somebody I used to tour with 15 years ago.
♪
We are here in Toronto, and we're gonna go meet with a guy
named Leland Klassen, a Christian stand-up comedian.
He is the man who introduced me to the whole concept that
there was such a thing as Christian comedy
and Christian stand-up comedians.
We're gonna go talk to him about this sort of parallel world;
being a Christian comedian, performing for churches,
also performing for secular comedy club audiences.
So are my hands too big for my body?
Is that too much hand-to-body ratio?
(Laughing)
I used to do the hand signs for the Deaf too,
the sign language for the Deaf, till they made me stop.
I guess I was making the Deaf people mad or something.
"Stop it, it's too loud!"
(Laughing)
Leland Klassen, you old son of a bitch.
(Laughing)
How are you? Nice to see you.
Good to see you too!
Have a seat next to all these shattered dreams
that are on the walls.
Seeing you brings back all kinds of memories for me.
Good memories?
I said memories, Leland.
(Laughing) I noticed you stopped!
But we did the road together at one point.
It was an interesting tour for me because
we were going to bars, saloons.
These were not Christian comedy gigs.
I started at clubs and bars, and I never planned,
like, oh, I'm gonna be a "Christian" comedian.
I was a Christian when I started doing comedy.
Still am. Still am.
What about other guys that are on the circuit?
Would they be too afraid?
Are you one of the few that would come to
a place like Yuk Yuks?
I know some are afraid just because they're not comfortable
in that environment.
In a church, I feel like I have more freedom.
Why?
'Cause I can talk about faith if I want, which is
comfortable for me, but I know not for a secular audience,
so I don't talk about it.
Here's the numbers so you get an idea.
Glove size: 4 XL.
(Laughing)
Hat size: youth medium, so that's embarrassing.
(Laughing)
Seriously, I buy my gloves at Big & Tall,
I buy my hats at Baby Gap.
(Laughing)
Terrible selection too, buddy...
How much of a scene is it?
How many Christian comedians do you think there are
out there working?
Yeah, I'm sure there's 400 or 500.
Lot of ventriloquists?
Uh, there's a few. (Laughing)
What about the stigma of being a Christian comedian?
Do you get attitude from comedians that
are not part of that circuit?
I get it, that there's some corny,
there's some cheesy, but there's a lot of really good comedy too.
Sometimes I feel like I'm all altruistic,
like I'm doing all these church shows and stuff because
God's using me in this capacity.
And other times I'm like, "Or is it just 'cause it's easier
'cause they accept me?"
Right.
So I don't know which is the truth.
I had a lady come up to me after a show one time.
She was offended I was doing jokes about
the size of my hands.
The very joke you just heard, she was offended.
And she said, and I quote, "Sets a bad example for kids
about making fun of themselves."
What do you even say to that, you know?
I was like, "Um... maybe comedy's not for you?
It's not your thing?" (Laughing)
It's my own fault though 'cause I... I married her.
(Laughing)
Leland's done well playing both secular and Christian venues,
but many successful Christian comics have built their careers
entirely outside mainstream rooms.
Unless you're a fan of Christian comedy,
you've probably never heard of Chonda Pierce,
but she's sold more comedy albums than almost
any other comedian.
So we're just outside of...
(Organ riff) I don't know, where are we?
PRODUCER: Just outside of Nashville.
Music City USA, Nashville, Tennessee.
Home of everything in the history of country and western.
We're gonna visit with a woman named Chonda Pierce,
who is one of the most successful Christian
stand-up comedians in the country.
I watched Kardashians the other day.
I know.
Look, church people go, "Oh."
(Laughing)
I did, I watched the Kardashians.
I was just trying to check my own moral compass.
(Laughing)
I watch that, see what those girls are doing,
their life choices.
I feel a lot better about myself.
(Laughing)
She just came out with a documentary.
We're gonna see what she's like and what this is all about.
(Dogs barking)
Well, hi!
Hey, puppy, hey!
That's my ferocious guard dog, Kliph.
Hello, guard dog!
There comes a time all the sudden in my career
to go back and do comedy clubs?
Are you kidding me?
When you're selling 4,000 tickets a night,
why would I go do that?
There's a genre now that people refer to as Christian comedy,
or Christian comedians.
Can you believe that?
When I mention it to people, people are like...
BOTH: What?
They don't understand, you know.
Like it's a cult? (Laughing)
I can remember the first time someone actually calling me
a Christian comedian, and I was like, "They have that?"
I didn't know that there was comedy
that didn't have dirty words in it.
And so I was elated to find a place where I could
laugh and cut up, and my mama would still like me!
(Laughing)
My mother's way of, you know, helping you to understand God
and know who God is was out of fear.
"You want the Lord to come back and catch you
in that movie house?" (Laughing)
"You want the Lord to come back right now
and catch you with that boy?"
You know how hard that was on my honeymoon?
(Laughing)
I put a do not disturb sign and a note to Jesus on the door.
(Laughing)
I opened for a Christian comedian,
but he was doing clean comedy in the secular world.
And then he would do the church circuit,
that's where he made all his money.
He was not talking about growing up in the church
or anything when he was onstage, he was just doing...
- A clean act? - Yeah.
As a clean comic, there's that one step further
that makes it Christian.
And to me, what makes it Christian is
we never bash the cross of Christ.
We truly believe what it is that we feel,
and what we are professing.
So that's kinda where the difference is.
You can be clean all day long,
but to be Christian is you draw a line.
Genitalia? (Snickering)
I feel weird most of the time that I'm attached to something
that could get me arrested!
(Laughing)
Some of the footage that I saw, I was amazed with just how
honest you are onstage.
But I'd never seen a Christian comedian talking about
depression, suicidal thoughts, anti-depressants.
I grew up in the Christian church community,
and I can throw the mirror up in front of somebody's face
because I lived there.
So I've earned the right, so to speak.
My background happened to be little tiny country churches
growing up as a preacher's kid.
So that was the only stuff I knew.
And those stories resonated with a group of people who have sure
needed to laugh for a long time, and that's the church world.
You know, I'm asking my audience to let's laugh it up,
and before the night, is it gonna be okay
if I talk about my faith?
KLIPH: Openly talking about her faith sets Chonda apart
from the mainstream comedy world where religion is often treated
with criticism or insults.
But there are exceptions.
Pete Holmes is known to be a spiritual guy,
having come to comedy from an evangelical upbringing.
He also has a rep as a cleaner comic,
even though he doesn't exactly fit the typical definition.
You know how they call prostitution
the oldest profession?
Who started that idea?
"Oh, it's the oldest pro--" Is it?
Farming? (Laughing)
Don't you think that beats paying for sex?
We gotta eat, you know!
You can't have like an emaciated prostitute
on a dirt road that hasn't been built yet just like,
"I'll suck your dick for a turnip!"
- Hey, Pete! - Hi, Kliph.
- Nice to see ya. - How are you?
Nice to see you.
I'll even throw you a "nice to meet you".
Did you identify, or do you still identify
as like a Christian comic?
No.
I was clean when I started,
but it was just because my heroes were clean.
And then slowly I started just, you know,
turning the knob up.
And when I started swearing, I felt more authentic.
Right, right, right.
So I was like oh, this is what I sound like inside.
Right.
Me personally, the decision isn't about clean or dirty,
saying fuck or not saying fuck.
It's about ugly or good.
If you're saying something positive and affirming but you
say shit, the message that's coming through those words,
if that's positive, you'll still get lumped in as a clean person.
What excites me is that there's the people that don't like
swearing, then there's the people who really want you
to swear a lot, and I can live in this middle place
where it's not essential, but it's also not forbidden.
I'm not crazy about pornography, not for any moral reason.
It's the during-the-sex acting.
It really takes me out of it, the way they act, like...
(Grunting)
Yeah, you like that pussy?!
What the fuck are you doing?
(Laughing)
This isn't an exorcism.
People are trying to masturbate!
I went to a Christian college,
and I performed there twice in my chapel.
You know, there's like stained glass,
and you're on the stage that people are baptized on,
and you gotta be really good.
If you can be great like Seinfeld or Brian Regan,
you can do it.
There's also people that leap to conclusions about what it means
if you say you believe in God.
The people that are supposed to be the most loving and open
and forgiving end up being the most judgemental and closed.
And I used to be one of those people, so I'm not judging.
- Really? - Oh, for sure.
I thought it was absolutely wrong to get prostitutes.
I was ambiguous on drugs and getting drunk or being gay.
So if you met somebody who was involved in one of those things,
you would feel judgemental towards them?
Oh, for sure.
I became far more Christ-like after I left the church!
It's gotta be tough sometimes
to remain Christ-like as a Christian comic.
When Leland works the Christian circuit,
he often doesn't even know if people are going to show up.
(Organ music)
I mean, this place seems almost built for like a stand-up gig.
Do you expect these seats to be full tonight, you think?
This is nice and close, so I think we can make do with
whatever it is.
Do Christian comedians pray before a show?
Is that a thing?
Um, I always do, yeah.
Well, even before, even the club show.
Right before I went on, I just... a quick prayer.
Like, "Please don't let me bomb"?
I know I'll be funny.
(Laughing)
It's more of just I don't wanna do anything that dishonours God,
and so I just pray that I'll glorify God
with whatever I'm doing up there.
Oh, that's interesting.
Explain to a secular guy, what does that mean, glorifying God?
The exact phrasing I use a lot of the times is that I'll
glorify God with everything I say and do on and off the stage.
So when I enter a place, I wanna be used by God as his tool.
So if that just means bringing somebody laughter who needed
laughter on the weekend, hey, it's the gifts you gave me.
Well, I know you gotta get ready,
so is there a backstage here?
Yes, I was told the green room's over this way.
Follow me.
Timmy Boyle, this is Kliph Nesteroff.
Kliph, nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you, looking forward to your show.
- And this is Chris Wineland. - Hey, how's it going?
- Nice to meet ya! - Nice to meet you, man.
Have you guys been here before?
- No, never been here before. - It's nice, eh?
It's phenomenal, yeah.
So it's interesting, you don't even know what
you're walking into really until you get here.
Probably people, hopefully, but...
A lot of times it's brand new.
For this tour, Leland is taking a portion of
the total box office instead of a flat fee.
So the size of the audience matters,
and he's only just now finding out how many people showed up
for tonight's performance.
So how many people you thinking, 82?
82.
So like 25% of the people bought tickets decided not to show?
Good evening, everybody, and amen!
Aren't we gonna pray? I thought we were gonna pray.
Get in here, pastor!
Father, we just pray that you would move upon the hearts
of those that are here, and we pray, Lord,
that you put a blessing upon these gentlemen
as they go out and share their talents.
ALL: Amen.
HOST: Ladies and gentlemen, Leland Klassen!
(Cheering)
You guys are the chattiest group I've ever...
(Laughing)
There's like 82 people, and every one of you
has said something already, two minutes in.
I'm not looking to reduce the amount of Christians
and inflate the amount of atheists in the world.
I truly don't care.
Headed to meet with a guy named Bone Hampton;
Christian comedian who sometimes does secular comedy clubs.
I know nothing about him.
So we'll go meet the man and see what he's all about.
I'm a all-or-none type of dude.
I don't believe in middle-of-the-road.
Even the Lord say he'll spit you out if you lukewarm.
I'm like that's right, Lord!
You're either on fire for me or ice cold!
That's right, Lord!
That's why I'm mad at you about my looks!
You shoulda either made me look like
Denzel Washington or Flavor Flav.
(Laughing)
Christian comedian; is that a word or phrase that you use,
or is that a phrase that other people attach to you?
I use it sometimes just so people be clear
it's gonna be a clean show.
What is the difference for you, if any,
doing a show for a club crowd as opposed to a church crowd?
With a church crowd, I can use what's called Christianese.
So I can use biblical terms, Christian terms.
And then when I'm in a comedy club,
I may do the same joke, I just won't be as specific.
You can go so much faster in a church than you can
in a regular, secular setup.
So we were all probably at about $100 a show comic,
$50 being happy.
All of a sudden I'm doing churches,
I'm getting 300 for 15 minutes, 500 for 20 minutes.
When I mention to people the premise of this episode,
that we're gonna profile this sort of subculture of
Christian stand-up comedians, everybody said the same thing.
They go, "Huh. Are they funny?"
So here's the funny thing: I got the same prejudice
toward Christian comics.
If I don't know who they are,
I'm not really coming to see 'em.
Right.
It's really interesting because people hear Christian comedy,
hear church, they think it's just this one thing.
But it's so parallel with secular comedy because if you go
to an urban room, you know what kinda material that you might
get versus going to what we would call a mainstream room.
And so church is kind of the same way.
If you go to an urban church, you gonna get a little bit more
than what you would get at a quote/unquote mainstream church.
Now, I'm one of the few that do both.
I do white churches and black churches.
And I tell people the difference is
a white church is like a day-time talk show,
and a black church is like a night-time talk show.
They both got the same regulations and network,
but you can say some stuff on the night-time talk show they
not even gonna let you close to say on the day-time talk show.
White churches are not tolerant of sin enough.
It's almost like you gotta be perfect.
But then black churches are too tolerant of sin.
You can almost do whatever you want to.
If it could come more in the middle,
I think it'd help more people.
KLIPH: The more I talk to Christian comedians,
the more I see the parallels
between secular and Christian stand-up.
But in the interest of arriving at a fully informed opinion,
I can't leave New York without also getting the views of
an avowed atheist.
So we're here at the VICELAND headquarters,
Brooklyn, New York, waiting for David Cross.
I was thinking about Jesus Christ the other day,
and it occurred to me that we have no idea
what Jesus Christ sounded like.
You know, no idea at all.
I mean, all we have to go on are these Hollywood actors.
You know, they'd always attribute this kind of sombre,
rational, monotone voice of reason to him.
Jesus is always walking amongst the marketplace
sounding like this, my son.
You know, it was 2,000 years ago.
There were no tape recorders back then, we have no idea.
I mean, for all we know he could've sounded
just like a really effeminate southern man.
"Hey, Luke! Hey, Mark! Y'all come on in!"
(Laughing)
"Does this toga make me look fat?"
(Laughing)
"Oh lord, oh lord. Oh, that's me!"
(Laughing)
In your travails doing stand-up all these years,
have you encountered anybody
who was a Christian stand-up comedian?
I haven't met anybody who's like specifically Christian comedy,
but I've certainly worked with comics who market themselves
like family friendly.
But what do you think of that idea of being somebody
who is a Christian stand-up?
I mean, funny is funny, and you can be funny
in a myriad of ways.
I haven't seen any Christian-- or heard any Christian comedy
that's funny to me or unique.
What might be problematic is that the Bible is
extraordinarily contradictory, and for me, I can dismiss it
out of hand as it's just... it's fiction.
It's not uncommon to see a comedian
criticize organized religion.
Even if they think it's common, saying,
"Oh, you're gonna go up and make fun of Christianity,"
or, "The Bible is easy," is absurd.
It's just not true.
I've had so many people walk out of shows, yell things.
- It's not easy. - Right.
To me, clean comedy is easy.
You're going to take away anything that can seem
offensive, thus making it a little easier to stay onstage,
do your act, and not have people interrupt.
Right.
Because you take away that potential reaction,
then clean comedy is easier.
I love getting in front of audiences and making them laugh.
That's my passion, but I am tired.
20 years!
Alright, well, we'll let you out up here.
(Laughing) Thanks!
KLIPH: Despite the preconceptions I first brought
to the idea of Christian comedy, the reality is that it's a lot
like any other comedy subculture with comedians who face
many of the same challenges you find in the mainstream.
For Chonda, her struggles have not only informed her act,
but they've also provided an opportunity to help others.
I started dealing with depression about 10 years ago.
I never dealt with it in my childhood,
but I had a wonderful shrink tell me one time that depression
is anger turned inward.
Hmm.
Talking bluntly about things like depression and divorce
and child abuse, hopefully being blunt enough to talk about that
and still say I love Jesus and I really believe he loves me.
We founded a place called Branches Counselling Center
for help with addictions.
A lot of marriage counselling that we do,
trying to save a lot of marriages.
It is a non-profit organization, and we don't turn anybody away.
(Doors slamming)
'Kay, welcome to the Funny Farm!
Thank you.
It's very, very muddy and messy today.
I love it.
I'ma take ya on the wild ride.
Okay. Woo!
And it's a good one!
Sometimes the gift of comedy is great sarcasm,
and I grew up so legalistic, where you couldn't step out
the line or you're gonna go to hell in a hand basket.
And everyone who is a person of faith,
whatever that faith is, it comes with your moral compass
deep within, and that helps you decide
what material you're gonna use.
And there have been times I messed up.
Is there something outside of comedy
that you're looking to do?
I just really love the craft.
I like still coming up with a funny story or hearing something
hilarious that I could share with a group of people.
It's bigger than I ever dreamed or imagined.
Thank you so much for sharing your...
your home with us and your property with us.
Thanks for coming to the Funny Farm.
Cut!
Was that genuine enough?!
Just kidding! (Laughing)
For Leland, tonight is the final leg of his mini tour
of rural Michigan.
The turnout at the last gig was a bit underwhelming,
so he's hoping this show will offset
the previous night's losses.
This is one person who not only has a wonderful heart for God,
but his serving heart is just beaming.
(Clapping)
Hey, thanks for clapping till I almost got to the microphone.
I appreciate the enthusiasm.
'Kay, I was talking about the airport.
A couple weeks ago I was going through security,
and buddy just pat me down.
He was right here while he was patting me down.
And I don't know why I said this, but I looked over
and I'm like, "Oh, you're... are you checking out the guns?"
(Crowd gasping)
Oh no, no no no! No, hey, no no, everybody!
(Laughing)
And I tried to fix it, right?
I'm like, "No, 'cause I got... I got the muscular arms!"
And buddy looks at me all deadpan and he's like,
"No, you don't," and just sent me on my way!
(Laughing)
Let's talk about how did you do financially?
(Laughing)
Yeah, not as good as others.
We took a bath on this one.
What I'm asking you is did you lose money on your...
your church tour here?
Oh yeah.
Why didn't you just ask that?
I lost tons. (Laughing)
I mean, I wouldn't still be around doing it if I always did,
but yeah, this one I did for sure.
Right, right, right.
It's been a pleasure,
and actually it really has been great to see you.
It's been great seeing you again!
It's about 15 years, and you look exactly the same.
(Laughing)
Not only still doing it, but you're stronger now
than you've ever been.
Thanks, man. Yeah, it was fun hanging out.
Alright, see ya later.
- Yeah, man, great seeing you. - Okay.
Oh, we're walking the same way, now it's awkward.
I'm gonna go one way and you're gonna go the other.
- Yeah, I don't wanna... - You know what I mean?
Next time metaphorically.
Too uncomfortable-- Jesus!
(Laughing)
I didn't say it, I didn't say it!
I was just reading the poster, I was reading the poster!
See ya, man!
The most common thing I heard when I mentioned to people
we were gonna do an episode about Christian comedy
was having that person ask me are they funny?
Touring with Leland through rural Michigan,
it reminded me of 15 years ago
when I opened for him on the road.
And what I learned is that the experience of being a Christian
stand-up comic is basically the same as being a secular comic.
You work your way up, you play hard, tough gigs in small towns,
you play comedy clubs, you play weird gigs, you play good gigs,
small crowds, big crowds, and it's the same
in the secular world.
When it comes right down to it, doesn't matter what you believe
as long as you're funny.
I don't know enough about religion,
but it seems like the tenet of a lot of religions,
sort of the tenet that gets distorted,
is that people become judgemental of other people
that are not part of that.
The judgement thing doesn't make sense because
I think in my mind, a spiritual person doesn't see a difference
between you and them.
It's like supreme compassion to the point where you don't even
see a difference.
So I like to think of myself as a good comedian,
meaning I say "motherfucker" or whatever it is I say,
but little old ladies still come up to me after the show,
they say, "I love how clean you are."
I'm just saying it's weird what we're ashamed of.
Can we agree?
Like there was a time that there were just a couple people,
and we were holding coconuts, and we're like,
"Okay, what should we censor?"
And someone was like,
"Well, get your fucking dick outta my face!"
And they're like, "Oh, sorry!"
But like... (Laughing)
...you didn't know that that was wrong until some fucking
prudish caveman was like, "No more tits!"
I can be trying to enlighten and inspire you,
and be talking about sex or drugs or whatever it may be that
you consider debaucherous, and then somebody else might be very
clean and really what they're selling you is isn't food good?
Isn't sex good? Isn't sleeping good?
Isn't buying shit good?
Which is more offensive?
We act tough, we swear, we smoke cigars,
we punch each other to get boners later.
And to drive this home, even this bit that I'm doing
right now is so I can get a boner later.
Later tonight, I'll be like,
"Remember how vulnerable I was up there?"
(Laughing)
And I like doing those for the rooms, like the regular rooms.
Then you do a place like this and you feel like people might
be more on that tip, the sensitive tip.
And then you do stuff that maybe you think
they're not ready for either.
I think clean comedy has changed.
I think it doesn't necessarily mean you don't swear.
That's what I'm pushing for.
And enlightenment and goodness is so hard to find,
I'll take it wherever I can get it.
If it's somebody being filthy, who cares?
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