FMQ Translated Y Llywydd / The Llywydd: The first item on
our agenda this afternoon is questions to the First Minister, and the first question
is from Janet Finch-Saunders.
Janet Finch-Saunders: 1.
Will the First Minister make a statement on the health service in North Wales?
OAQ(5)0407(FM) Carwyn Jones: Our priorities for the health
service in the north, and throughout Wales, are to continue to protect investment and
deliver the range of commitments set out in ëTaking Wales Forwardí.
Janet Finch-Saunders: Well, clearly, your priorities are not orthopaedic care in north
Wales, First Minister.
I hope you are as shocked as I am with the recent findings of a 5,000 per cent increase
in those having gone longer than the 36 weeks waiting time for orthopaedic and trauma services.
That is 3,052 patients now having gone considerably longer than that.
I have constituentsó80 weeks requiring a knee replacement, 130 weeks for a hip replacement.
These individuals are in constant and sickening pain 24 hours a day, seven days a week, fed
up with popping several really serious painkillers.
And then to learn yesterday that all orthopaedic replacement surgery in Ysbyty Gland Clwyd
is now on hold.
Iím also advised that the Enlli ward has closed currently for surgery.
That frustrates me and my constituents even more.
Such delays in this kind of treatment is a national scandal, and if this is an example
of your Government putting a health board in special measures 18 months ago, then serious
questions must be raised.
How, under your watch, have you allowed such scandalous waiting times, and what will you
do now, as First Minister, please, on behalf of my constituents, and those patients across
north Wales, to investigate the matter urgently and to provide my constituents and others
with the appropriate treatment they not only needó
Y Llywydd / The Llywydd: You do need to bring your question to an end.
You have asked several questions now.
Janet Finch-Saunders: [Continues.]ówith the appropriate treatment they not only need,
but deserve?
Carwyn Jones: Well, the majority of patients waiting in north Wales are waiting less than
26 weeks, but we do recognise that trauma and orthopaedics is a challenging area, where
some of the waiting times are not acceptable.
Extra money has been made available to Betsi Cadwaladr local health board in order to reduce
waiting times.
They are outsourcing some activity now to alternative providers, and we expect to see
the situation improve markedly over the course of the next two months.
Llyr Gruffydd: Earlier this month, the annual safeguarding report from Betsi Cadwaladr health
board was published, which was quite a frightening read, I must say.
The risk register showed 13 serious risks, including failure to comply with various pieces
of safeguarding legislation, or that there was a real risk that a child or a person on
the at-risk register wouldnít be identified if they were to go to the accident and emergency
department, which could lead to serious harm to that individual.
After a year and a half in special measures, do you believe that that is acceptable?
Carwyn Jones: Well, of course, we know that the board isnít yet ready to come out of
special measures at present, but, having said that, we also know, looking broadly at the
performance of the health board, that things have improved, and we saw that in looking
at the framework in November, which showed that very good work had been done.
Whatís important now is to ensure that every part of the service being delivered by the
health board improves in the same manner as the cancer treatment times, for example, and
waiting times for diagnostic tests.
Michelle Brown: First Minister, how can you justify offering free prescriptions and additional
childcare, regardless of income and at a huge cost, while the number of people waiting for
orthopaedic treatment in north Wales has rocketed?
Where are your priorities?
Carwyn Jones: Because we were elected on that basis.
I canít speak for her party, but we like to keep our promises.
David Melding: 2.
Will the First Minister make a statement on the provision of bespoke mental health services
for former armed services personnel?
OAQ(5)0408(FM) Carwyn Jones: ëTaking Wales Forwardí confirms
our commitment to ensuring veterans continue to receive healthcare that meets their needs.
We will maintain the valuable national Veteransí NHS Wales service, which provides access to
evidence-based treatments for veterans with mental health problems.
David Melding: First Minister, can I welcome what youíve just said there about preserving
the service.
You are actually leading the way in the UK, and I commend you for that.
But as we now review this service that has had a lot of initial success, I think we are
perhaps too reliant on self-referralóthat seems to be one of the things that has come
throughóat the moment.
And I think one key objective should be to inform veterans at the resettlement stage,
as they move into civilian life, of this service.
That time of life can itself be very challenging, but, of course, they may then have information
that could be very, very important to them a few months or years hence.
Carwyn Jones: Yes, I take the point that the Member makes.
We know that there are high levels of satisfaction with the service that is provided to veterans.
It may be, of courseóor I think we can do thisówe can raise the issue with the Royal
British Legion, and, indeed, the armed forces, to see what more could be done to inform veterans
of the availability of the service, and, of course, to encourage them to seek help from
the service, rather than hold back.
But I willówell, the Minister will have heard whatís been said in the Chamber, and, if
we can do more to improve communication, to ensure that people can benefit from the service
that does have such high rates of satisfaction, then we will.
Neil McEvoy: First Minister, I wonder if you know that I submitted a motion, as a Memberís
legislative proposal, to bring about a ëno soldier left behindí Act.
But the Business Committee decided not to support it at this time.
But the fact is, there are just too many veterans coming to my surgeryó
Y Llywydd / The Llywydd: Can I just correct that?
It is not timetabled.
The decision taken by the Business Committee is not to be questioned on this floor, and
it is not to be timetabled; priority has been given to another Memberís legislative proposal.
Neil McEvoy: Okay, thank you, Llywydd, for your clarification.
So, we do have an opportunity to bring it back, it seems.
But too many veterans are struggling for healthcare, struggling for housing, and especially, as
the colleague across the Chamber said, for mental health care.
Local authorities donít have to give veterans priority.
Now, the reality is that we donít leave soldiers behind on the battlefield, and we shouldnít
be leaving them behind when they come home.
So, will your Government support a Bill, legislation, to make sure that what a lot of people are
suffering at the minute no longer happens, and we make a difference and make a change
to the lives of these people?
Carwyn Jones: It depends what the Bill says.
At the moment, all I know is that thereís a suggestion, and we have to see what the
detail might be.
It may be that a lot of the issues that the Member raises have already been covered by
the service as it stands.
We do make £585,000 available each year to fund the service.
It does provide therapeutic interventions from dedicated veteran therapists in each
local health board.
It also has a referral pathway, to signpost veterans to other areas, in order for them
to get help and support.
I suppose the question would be, would a Bill add to that, and much of it would depend on
what was in the Bill, before taking a proper view on whether a Bill would add to the service
thatís available already.
Caroline Jones: First Minister, just over two years ago, a Welsh Government review of
the Veteransí NHS Wales service found that veterans were waiting up to 80 days for an
initial assessment, and up to 140 days from assessment.
The review also highlighted the fact that the service would face additional pressures,
resulting from the UK defence and security review.
In total, 15 recommendations were made as a result of the review.
First Minister, can you update us on the progress that has been made by Welsh Government and
the local health boards in implementing the recommendations, reducing waiting times for
veterans and ensuring the service can respond to future demand?
Carwyn Jones: Yes, that report was received in November 2014.
It did show high satisfaction rates among veterans using the service.
It did make a number of recommendations to improve service provision, and those recommendations
have been accepted, and are being taken forward.
Y Llywydd / The Llywydd: Questions now from the party leaders.
The leader of Plaid Cymru, Leanne Wood.
Leanne Wood: Diolch, Lywydd.
First Minister, following the announcement of President Trumpís racist travel ban, there
have been demonstrations throughout the world, including here in Wales, rejecting the idea
of division.
But the issue is wider than just that specific ban.
The whole question of migration has become a toxic debate.
Will you join me, and others in this Assembly, to make it clear that Wales remains open for
business, open to visitors, and, just as importantly, open to those fleeing persecution?
And do you agree with me that this politics of division, on the grounds of national origin,
or religion, has no place in Wales, or, indeed, anywhere else?
Carwyn Jones: [Inaudible.]óthose sentiments.
We are, each and every one of us in this Chamber, the descendants of immigrantsóitís a question
of when our families came to this island.
Much more unites us as human beings than can possibly divide us.
And I do share the view that the current debate in more than one country around the world
regarding migration is toxic.
It is ironic that the debate is sometimes at its most toxic in countries that are made
up of immigrants who are first, second and third generation.
That is the irony of this.
But the reality is that we know that where nationalism, in terms of extreme right-wing
nationalism, is allowed to take a grip, as we saw in the 1930s, the result is calamity.
Leanne Wood: Thank you for your answer, First Minister, and I would agree with much of the
sentiment that you expressed there.
Now, one of the factors that was influential in the EU referendum result was the issue
of wages and the undercutting of labour.
Now, this exploitation is happening, thereís no doubt about that.
Youíll be aware, as I am, of unscrupulous employers charging for accommodation and nominally
deducting it from peopleís wages.
Those workers are not in trade unions, and they are often being effectively paid below
the minimum wage.
Now, migrant workers are being exploited and those employers are also undercutting Welsh
workers.
So, both types of workers are losing out.
Yesterday, we met with the UK Government Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union, and
this point was made, I think itís fair to say, strongly.
This morning, Iíve written to the UK Prime Minister, calling for much stronger enforcement,
just as I called on previous Labour Governments to do.
It has to be dealt with, because this undercutting and exploitation is being used by some politicians
to exploit peopleís concerns about migration.
Even the Secretary of State for Wales yesterday was joining in, flying in the face of facts
and evidence as to why wages have been stagnant.
Does the First Minister agree with me that the exploitation of workers by unscrupulous
employers has to stop, and will he agree to tackle it using whatever powers may be available
to him, regardless of the outcome of the Brexit negotiations?
Carwyn Jones: Well, indeed.
She and I were at that meeting with David Davis yesterday.
He agreedóhe agreed with what we said, but the question is, of course, agreeing is one
thing, action is another.
The point was madeóand she made the pointóthat we have not seen prosecutions for breaches
of minimum-wage legislation, largely because itís not quite as straightforward as that.
She will knowóIíve mentioned in this Chamber before nowóthat I have heard believable testimony
from Polish workers particularly that they are being paid the minimum wage, but there
are other methods that are used in order to deduct money from them, such as unrealistic
bonds when they go into accommodationóbonds against damage and, when they get there, they
find the accommodation is white furniture, white carpets, white walls, and itís very
difficult to keep it in full order.
We made the point, both of us, yesterday, that thereís a huge amount of work to do
in order to make sure that these people are brought to account, these unscrupulous employers,
because she is quite rightóthey exploit migrant workers and lower standards, as a result,
for workers in the whole of the UK.
Unfortunately, many of the people who sit at the moment in the UK Government are not
interested in the rights either of migrant workers or British workers.
Leanne Wood: Youíre right, First Minister, there are a number of ways that unscrupulous
employers can exploit workers, but this question of the minimum wage is a key one.
Last time I looked, HMRC only employed six people to enforce the national minimum wage,
and itís clearly not a priority for the UK Government.
There have been minimal prosecutions in recent years, and that was the case under the previous
Labour Government as well, itís fair to say.
Will you join me in condemning in the strongest possible terms those politicians who seek
to peddle myths about the reasons behind peopleís wages being squeezed, because while we are
pointing at migrants instead of the Governmentís inaction towards rogue employers, we are letting
the real culprits off the hook?
And will you also commit to this Assembly today to let us know what Welsh Government
resources youíll be able to identify to stop this exploitation so that enforcement and,
if necessary, the naming and shaming of rogue employers, can take place?
Carwyn Jones: What I would like to do is to work closely with those communities affected
so they donít feel afraid to come forward to offer their testimony.
Quite often, that will be done under the promise of anonymity, and that is something that we
will look to take forward.
Recently, I finished reading Dennis Skinnerís autobiography.
Now, heís not normally a politician who I would share a huge amount in common with,
perhaps, in many ways, but what he did say about Polish workers in the mines after the
war was interesting.
He said there was no animosity towards them because they were members of a trade union.
They were not seen in any way as undercutting wages.
They were seen as being in the same position and they had the same protections as workers
in the UK, and thatís exactly what we need to get back to.
Too many people have low wages, firstly because of austerity, and secondly because they donít
have the support of a trade union.
And we know that workplaces that are unionised deliver better terms and conditions for those
people who work in those workplaces.
Thatís why itís important to make sure that all workers, as much as we can get them to
that point, are covered through trade union membership, wherever they come from in the
world.
Y Llywydd / The Llywydd: The leader of the Welsh Conservatives, Andrew R.T.
Davies.
Andrew R.T.
Davies: Thank you, Presiding Officer.
Saturday is World Cancer Day, something that many Members in this Chamber would have been
touched by, and I know yourself and my family have had an unfortunate episode where weíve
lost a loved one to cancer.
One in two of us going forward will have an episode of cancer in our lives, down from
one in three.
So, the odds of people getting cancer are increasing by the day and by the week.
Regrettably, the Welsh Governmentís 62-day target time has not been met since 2008.
That aside, there is much good progress as well going on in cancer services across Wales.
What is your overview of the delivery of cancer services here in Wales, bearing in mind we
have this national cancer day to look forward to on the weekend to reflect on where we are
at, and that one in two of us will have an episode of cancer in our lifetime?
Carwyn Jones: I declare an interest here.
As Members will know, and as is registered in the register of interests, my wife is employed
by Macmillan.
What is clear over the next 10 years is that there are two developments that people will
find if they are diagnosed with cancer.
Firstly, more and more people are ëliving with canceríóthatís the phrase that is
usedócancers that perhaps cannot be cured in the conventional sense of five yearsí
remission, but that actually allow people to live a normal life and donít necessarily
shorten their lives as a result, with the right level of treatment.
Secondly, huge progress is being madeóand we are fortunate to have the centre for cancer
genetics in Cardiffóin developing treatments that are tailored to the genetic needs of
the individual.
Cancer treatment has been, for many, many years, a rather blunt instrument.
The same kinds of treatments were applied to people over the years.
It was more like trial and error.
We are at the forefront of the development of cancer genetics and treatment in Wales
and I want to make sure that more and more people have the opportunity to be rid of cancer
in the course of their lives, but also are able to live with cancer because they have
the support, both pharmaceutical and moral, in order to do that.
Andrew R.T.
Davies: You are right to point out the positives in cancer treatments and the developments
and the way Wales is leading the field in some of these areas.
The cancer bank at Velindre hospital is another very good example of pioneering science and
technology.
Your Government has targets for having a million Welsh speakers by 2050.
Thereís a statement this afternoon, ëTowards 2030í, from the education Secretary.
There is a goal that the UK Lung Cancer Coalition has, which is to increase the survival rates
from lung cancer.
Irrespective of where you live across the United Kingdom, the survival rates are very,
very poor indeed: 16 per cent in other parts of the United Kingdom, 5 per cent or 6 per
cent here in Wales.
I think youíll agree with me that that is something weíve got to desperately improve.
They have a target to increase the survival rate from lung cancer after five years up
to 25 per cent by 2025.
Iíve highlighted other goals your Government has set.
Will you be prepared to set that as a goal for your Government to work to, certainly
up to 2021, and hopefully to deliver?
Carwyn Jones: Yes, I think thatís reasonable.
We want to see more people live with and, ultimately, survive lung cancer.
The survival rates are around about 8 per cent or 9 per cent, if I remember rightly.
Theyíre in single figures and they are low.
Much of it is because early diagnosis is so crucial to any type of cancer and the symptoms
donít manifest themselves quite often unless people present as acute cases in the hospitals.
I do believe that our GPs are referring people as they should.
There is no question to my mind that that is happening and that people are receiving
the attention that they need.
Where people have complex forms of cancer, of course, sometimes multiple tumours, then
it does take some time to begin a course of treatment because that treatment has to be
planned in the most effective way for them.
But I have no difficulty, of course, in looking to support an initiative that wants to cut
the number of deaths through lung cancer in the way that the leader of the Welsh Conservatives
has described.
Andrew R.T.
Davies: Thank you for that commitment, First Minister, because if that commitment is made,
it could potentially save 600 livesópeople who are dying prematurely through lung cancer
at the moment here in Wales.
Ultimately, that is a goal, surely, we should all be striving to.
Two weeks ago I held and event here for Cancer Patient Voices around cancer services, and
at that event, Tom Crosby, whoís the clinical lead for cancer services here in Wales, highlighted
the importance of bringing forward a cancer plan to underpin cancer development in servicesóabout
bringing oncologists into Wales and developing long-term sustainable services.
If weíre going to hit that target of an increase in survival up to 25 per cent by 2025, and
if we want to be serious about getting on the track now, we need to bring that plan
forward.
When people like Tom Crosby are identifying that as a need, I hope you will agree that
the Government does need to listen to him and listen to others who are saying that is
what is required to drive the strategy forward.
Indeed, Macmillan, who you identified in a Memberís interest, identified only last week
that there needs to be a dramatic improvement in the delivery of services for patients in
2017.
Will you commit to bringing forward a cancer plan along the lines of what Tom Crosby has
identified and, indeed, an improvement in services that Macmillan have called for in
2017?
Carwyn Jones: The leader of the Welsh Conservatives will no doubt know that these are issues that
are raised constantly in the house where I live, and the points are made very strongly,
and rightly so.
We will listen, of course, to those who suggest different ways in which cancer can be dealt
with.
We have our cancer delivery plan, of course.
We want to ensure that we have the right level of medical staff in Wales; itís why we have
our recruitment campaign that we launched last year.
And, of course, itís hugely important to work with third sector organisations who provide
support for people who are diagnosed.
The shock of a cancer diagnosis can often be heightened by the need for treatment, hospital
stays, the knock in someoneís income that that makes, the knock in the confidence of
an individual that that makes, and so itís a question as well of making sure people have
support outside.
Iíve seen, and he will have no doubt seen similar examples, people who, because they
have received support and because they have kept their spirits in the right place and
their mind in the right place, have survived cancer, whereas other people who have lost
their spirit donít survive, and Iíve seen that.
So, itís hugely important that, whilst he makes the point that we have the right level
of medical staff in order to deliver the treatments, weíre also able to ensure that people have
the most comprehensive and holistic support around them in order to help them fight the
disease as well.
Y Llywydd / The Llywydd: Leader of the UKIP group, Neil Hamilton.
Neil Hamilton: The First Minister will know that the Ford Motor Company recently cancelled
a £1.6 billion proposed investment in Mexico, and decided instead to increase investment
in its plant in Michigan by $700 million.
This is partly, they say, a vote of confidence in the Trump administrationís policy.
One thousand, eight hundred and fifty jobs in Ford in Bridgend depend upon that company,
despite their decision to slash a proposed investment by nearly £100 million last September.
Does the First Minister think that those jobs are rendered more secure by his insulting
call to cancel the proposed invitation to President Trump to make a state visit to the
United Kingdom?
Carwyn Jones: If he wishes to beó.
May I remind him that the Ford Motor Company has condemned Donald Trumpís comments over
the weekend?
He might not have seen that, but they have done that.
We all see the chaos that has resulted in America.
It is for him to act as an advocate for the US Government, not for me.
But what I can say to him is that the greatest threat to the Ford engine plant is the possibility
of a barrier between it and its only customer in Germany.
It exports every single engine that it makes.
If there are barriers in place between that engine plant and Germany, Ford will be tempted
over the years to shift their production to Craiova in Romania or to other plants in Europe.
I want Ford to be on a level playing field with those other plants, and not be put in
a position of weakness.
Neil Hamilton: My point is the importance of a continued prospering trade relationship
with the United States, which will, to an extent, depend upon having a positive relationship
with the United States Government.
Now, I appreciate that there will be different views around the Chamber on the domestic policies
of the United States Government and, indeed, President Trumpís apparent views on world
trade.
But given that the United States is Walesís biggest individual nation trading partnerówe
exported £2,664 million-worth of exports to that country to June 2016; thatís 22 per
cent of all the exports from Walesóis it not vitally important that we should be as
positive towards President Trump in our international relations, and therefore welcome a state visit
from him later this year?
Carwyn Jones: First of all, it is right that we engage the US Government; Iíll be in America
at the end of next month, as I am, at Capitol Hill hosting a reception, working with the
Welsh caucus of Congress members as well, and Iíll keep on doing that.
But it was Theresa May herself who said that we should speak frankly to friends; she has
not done that.
She has not done that.
And I think itís hugely important that these points are made.
The phrase that Iíve used is that I think itís very difficult to imagine a successful
state visit at the moment, given all the controversy.
Iím also surprised at the timing of this.
Bill Clinton never had a state visit, nor, to my knowledge, did George Bush, nor did
Ronald Reagan.
Two other Presidents had state visits, but at least two years after they became President.
So, the timing is strange, I have to say.
I donít criticise Theresa May for trying to forge links with the US Government regardless
of who is in power; that is the nature of international diplomacy.
But it also means that if we are truly to be, as it were, friendly criticsóif I can
use that phraseóof the US Government, then the British Government surely should not refrain
from doing that.
Neil Hamilton: Theresa May, of course, has given friendly criticism to President Trump
already in various ways, and Iím not against being candid with our allies, but there is
a difference in diplomacy between candid criticism given in a polite and private way and the
kind of megaphone diplomacy that is more concerned with grandstanding and virtue signalling,
in this country, for domestic political gain.
Carwyn Jones: I think he sat down when he heard the words ëNigel Farageí being uttered
in the Chamberóthe master of megaphone diplomacy and somebody who is Donald Trumpís representative
on earth at the moment.
From my perspective, the words I have chosen, I believe, have been appropriate and I think
they are self-evident to most people in Britain.
As I said yesterday, if circumstances change, the circumstances surrounding the visit may
well change as well, although given the events of the last few daysówell, Members can make
up their own minds about whatís been happening in the US.
We still have no real clarity on what it means even for British passport holders, despite
what Boris Johnson said yesterday.
I think there are issues for the Prime Minister.
The first question is: when did she know about this?
If it was Friday, did she make representations?
When did she know about the conditions that were attached to the executive order and,
if so, did she make representations for British citizens and British passport holders?
Why, when she was asked about the order, did she simply say, ëWell, this is a matter for
the USí?
If it had been any other country, she would not, I believe, have made that response.
Why did it take so long for Boris Johnson to get on the phone to clarify the position,
even though it appears itís not quite as clear as he has suggested in Parliament?
These are all questions, I think, that the Prime Minister has to answer.
Of course we have to have a relationship with the US Government.
Of course we will continue our relationship with the US businesses who invest in Wales.
Wales is open to US business, but that does not mean that we should say nothing about
policies that are put in place with which we disagree.
We have not done that with countries like China, we have not done that with countries
like Russia.
It is right, then, that we should also make our views known when we disagree with something
that the US does, rather than be quiet and sit in the corner.
That, I believe, is not the right way for the UK to conduct its affairs.
John Griffiths: 3.
Will the First Minister make a statement on the Welsh Government's progress in achieving
a more physically active Wales?
OAQ(5)0420(FM) Carwyn Jones: ëTaking Wales Forwardí sets
out our ambition to increase levels of physical activity.
Existing initiatives to encourage physical activity are having an impact and further
measures are being considered.
They will be outlined in the forthcoming healthy and active strategy.
John Griffiths: First Minister, every Saturday morning at 9 a.m. right across Wales, thousands
of people take part in parkruns.
Theyíre volunteer led, theyíre timed and people are able to chart their progress as
they, hopefully, improve their times over the months and, indeed, the years.
In Newport, the existing Tredegar House parkrun has just been added to with a city centre
urban parkrun along the riverside.
I took part in recent events and enjoyed the benefits as so many others do, First Minister,
although my joy in setting a personal best was somewhat reduced when the man who finished
in front of me confided that heíd just had a hip replacement.
[Laughter.]
But, nonetheless, theyíre very important events and I have set a personal best.
First Minister, will you join me in recognising and paying tribute to the importance and significance
of these parkruns, which are making a growing contribution to getting a more physically
active population right across the length and breadth of Wales?
Carwyn Jones: Yes, I will.
Itís hugely important that people feel comfortable in taking exercise in ways that are appropriate
to them.
There were two points that I feared he would make.
The first one, he did make, namely that he has been involved in a parkrun himself.
The second, he didnít make which I welcome, and that was to invite me to join him at a
parkrun.
[Laughter.]
I know full well that he would certainly have the edge on me there.
But I think itís hugely important that weíre able to encourage people to take exercise
in new ways, and parkruns, of course, are an excellent example of how to do that.
Dai Lloyd: Following on from John Griffithsís question, the First Minister will recall that
the last time I won an individual Memberís ballot in this place was around six years
ago, and that was a Measure to safeguard playing fields.
So, I do hope that there will be some developments along the lines that John suggested.
But itís also a matter of concern, as I read recently, that 13 per cent of children in
Wales do no physical activity from one week to the next.
So, what plans do you have in place to tackle that dreadful situation?
Carwyn Jones: The Welsh healthy school network scheme does support schools to promote schemes
to improve the health of pupils in schools.
Ninety-nine per cent of schools are part of that programmeóthose schools that arenít
private schools.
And, of course, we also work with the Welsh Local Government Association in order to support
children in continuing with their exercise during the summer holidays, by ensuring that
there are activities available for them to keep healthy.
Mohammad Asghar: First Minister, increasing access to the countryside for families for
responsible recreation could bring substantial benefits to the health and well-being of the
nation.
The consultation on improving opportunities to access the outdoors closed on 2 October
2015.
When will your Government be in a position to bring forward proposals that will encourage
activities such as cycling and horse riding, while protecting the environment and the livelihoods
of people who work in the countryside in Wales?
Carwyn Jones: Well, letís look at Letís Walk Cymru: itís a Welsh Government funded
programme, which sets up walking groups all over Wales.
The aim of that is to introduce walking into peopleís daily lives to prevent the onset
of conditions such as heart disease and obesity.
That complements what we are already doing.
Of course, itís important that people know where they can walk and also that people know
where they can cycle, and, of course, the Active Travel (Wales) Act 2013 is a piece
of legislation that helps us to develop those methods of both exercise and transport in
Wales in the future.
Steffan Lewis: 4.
What are the implications of the UK Government's industrial plan on Wales?
OAQ(5)0406(FM) Carwyn Jones: Thus far, it is not full of
detail, but we have long called for a rebalancing of the UK economy and we will carefully consider
the UK Governmentís industrial strategy Green Paper when we see it in more detail.
Steffan Lewis: Obviously, the industrial plan will impact on devolved matters in some way,
but we wonít exactly know that until the Welsh Government publishes an industrial plan
for Wales itself.
In response to a question from my friend the Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr last
week, the economy Secretary dismissed any need for an urgent industrial plan for Wales,
with some suggesting that we might have to wait until late in the summer for a Welsh
economic plan, let alone an industrial plan.
When will the Welsh Government stop playing hide and seek with the future prosperity of
this country?
Carwyn Jones: Far from itóthe unemployment rate is 4.1 per cent, lower than in England,
Scotland and Northern Ireland, and weíve just had the best figures for foreign direct
investment for 30 years.
We take the view that itís hugely important that we look to develop business, setting
up a development bank for Wales and the national infrastructure commission for Wales as well,
and so supporting sectors where they need support.
Weíve not seen support from the UK Government for steel; weíve provided that support and
itís because of that support that there is a future in prospect for the Welsh steel industry.
So, from our perspective, the figures speak for themselves in Wales.
Thereís heavy investment in skills as well to improve, ultimately, gross domestic product
per person and GDP across Wales, and we believe that the story we can tell is a good one.
David Rees: First Minister, youíve just mentioned steel there, and are you as disappointed as
I was when I read through the industrial plan from the UK Government that thereís very
little reflection on steel?
In fact, it reflects, perhaps, their whole approach to steelónon-existent, effectively.
Will you look at the industrial strategy, because manufacturing is 16 per cent of the
gross value added here in Wales?
Itís a major sector, so when you produce the economic strategy, will you ensure that
thereís an industrial strategy within that to ensure that our manufacturing sector and
our steel sector is reflected in the actions we take?
Carwyn Jones: By our actions, we are judged on what we have done for the steel sector
in Wales: the financial support that weíve provided; and the fact that weíve engaged
so much with Tata and other steelmakers, particularly, showing them that we steel as an important
part of the Welsh economy.
Thereís scant reference to steel in the Green Paper itself, despite the assurances weíve
heard from the UK Government about its central importance.
We need to see more detail on how the UK Government will do its bit to support the steel industry.
Russell George: In regard to your White Paper on exiting the EU, First Minister, thereís
much I can agree on.
But there does appear to be a lack of strategic planning to leverage the opportunities, I
think, to grow the Welsh economy.
We know that Welsh exports were down in 2015 and new business start-ups since 2011 have
reduced by 26 per cent.
So, in growing the Welsh economy, how is your paper linking with your prosperous and secure
strategy that your Cabinet Secretary talked about last week?
What Welsh Government plans are there to reverse the export declines and indeed support particularly
new business start-ups?
Carwyn Jones: Firstly, I thank him for what he said about the White Paper, not describing
it as ëThe Beanoí, of course, as we heard others in his party describe it.
He talked about small and medium-sized enterprisesówell, weíve got our repayable fund to SMEs, which
offers repayable finance to SMEs.
Immediately following the referendum we did launch the business confidence plan, which
is a series of actions weíre developing aimed at promoting business confidence, and that
includes the announcement of the new growth and prosperity fund, so that Wales remains
an attractive place for businesses to invest.
On top of that, Finance Wales has increased one fund and introduced two new funds as well.
For example, the Wales technology venture investments fund and the Wales business fund.
So, we are determined to make sure that we can provide as much support as SMEs need.
Itís right to say there is still some uncertainty as to what happens post Brexit.
We donít know what the arrangements will be for accessing the single market, and until
those questions are answered, then itís natural that some businesses who wish to export will
wish to wait and see what happens before they take investment decisions.
Hannah Blythyn: 5.
What assessment has the First Minister made of bank closures in north Wales?
OAQ(5)0413(FM) Carwyn Jones: I was concerned to hear of the
further proposed bank closures; theyíre happening across Wales.
What is absolutely crucial is that people, where they lose their bank branches, are able
to access banking services through the post offices.
Hannah Blythyn: Thank you, First Minister.
Just last week, HSBC announced its intention to close its branch in Holywell, hot on the
heels of NatWest taking the same decision to shut its doors in the same town, the consequence
of which is going to hit the high street hard.
I was joined by members of the community and my parliamentary colleague last Friday to
take a stand against this latest closure, and the hurt and the anger of local people
was clearly palpable.
They really feel enough is enough for the area.
Indeed, when HSBC closed its bank in Flint last year, they advised customers they could
relocate to use the Holywell branch, and they also shut their NatWest branch in Flint last
year, leaving many, mostly the elderly, out on a limb.
Whilst the banks make clear that itís possible to use the local post office, this is obviously
not applicable to business customers, and also the future of Holywell post office is
far from certain at present.
Hannah Blythyn: First Minister, while I recognise that any legislation to protect our local
bank branches would need to be done at a UK level, what is and can the Welsh Government
do to enable people and businesses in my constituency and across Wales to continue to access face-to-face
banking and support our high streets that will potentially suffer on the back of these
closures?
Carwyn Jones: We have, of course, over the years supported our post offices financially,
and they are hugely important in local communities.
It is right to say that, whilst personal banking services can be provided by post offices,
the reality is that most business customers donít get that kind of service, and thatís
what the Post Office needs to deliver, working with the banks.
When businesses cash up at the end of the day, where do they take their money?
Thatís one of the issues.
We look then at having night safes in post officesóthatís the logical development.
It helps the footfall of a post office as well.
The difficulty with banking now is that footfall has dropped significantly in the branches,
but there are people who need those services, and we must find a way of working with the
Post Office to make sure that those services are available to those people who need them.
Weíve made representations over the years to the Post Office, and indeed to the banksóIíve
done it personallyóto make sure that, where banks decide they no longer want to be in
a community, the post office is able to take over the service that they offer, and, of
course, to look at ways in which credit unions can provide financial services as well, to
fill the gaps that the commercial banks are leaving.
Rhun ap Iorwerth: Iíve also raised concerns in this Chamber with the First Minister on
a series of announcements in my constituency.
There have been further announcements recently on financial institutions, not only banks,
closing: HSBC in Holyhead, and the Yorkshire Building Society in Llangefni.
They are the latest two.
The outcome of this, of course, is that there is a centralisation of services in regional
hubs.
Weíre seeing a pattern of that emerging at the moment and that does deprive people of
services as other Members have said.
Rhun ap Iorwerth: Does the First Minister agree that the Welsh Government needs to put
pressure on the UK Government to ensure that banks, if not as individual companies but
as a wider sector, ensure that there are financial services that are accessible to all communities
in Wales?
Carwyn Jones: Thatís a fair point, and itís all important.
If the banks canít do it, then, in my view, they are duty-bound to ensure that there are
alternative ways of delivering the financial services via the Post Office, and also, of
course, as a Government weíve been supporting the credit unions to ensure that they can
fill the gap that the commercial banks are leaving, as I said earlier.
By so doing, I think it will be possible to ensure that people receive the service that
they should receive.
Mark Isherwood: As HSBC told me when I met them last year to discuss the closures in
Flintshire, as NatWest replied to me as I opposed and wrote to them regarding their
closure in Holywell, and as the Yorkshire Building Society is now saying, the reason
for this is the switch from bank-based service usage to digital usage.
Of course, thatóas has been now said about HSBC in Holywell, Holyhead and Llanrwstóleaves
older people, those without transport, those without internet access, shopkeepers, and
small businesses losing out.
Mark Isherwood: In that context, what dialogue and what submission did your Government make
to Professor Griggsís independent review into how banks have implemented the banking
protocol to minimise the impact of bank closures, and any dialogue with the Post Office regarding
their newly announced partnership to secure access to local banking services?
Carwyn Jones: Well, we welcome the recommendations for better engagement and communication between
the banks and customers, but it is important the UK Government, as the lead organisation
here, to make sure that what the review actually suggested is taken forward, namely that the
banks improve the way they engage with those communities facing branch closures, including
working with small business customers to see how they can further mitigate the challenge
of cash deposits and collection that closures bring to some of them.
So, whilst we welcome the recommendations, we do need to see action now on the part of
the UK Government.
Dawn Bowden: 6.
Will the First Minister make a statement on support for micro businesses in Wales?
OAQ(5)0417(FM) Carwyn Jones: Yes.
Business support is available for entrepreneurs, micro, small and medium-sized businesses across
Wales through our Business Wales service.
Our focus remains on supporting innovation-driven entrepreneurs, jobs and the economy.
Dawn Bowden: Thank you, First Minister.
As well as the support youíve referred to, Iím aware that Business Wales provides considerable
practical support and guidance for developing businesses, such as business plans, research,
marketing, managing et cetera.
In Merthyr Tydfil we have a fabulous organisation called the Hwyl Hub, which offers facilitated
office space for businesses to share resources and ideas under one roof.
The facilitated space offers a one-stop, cost-effective environment to kick-start ideas and share
skills, knowledge and success.
An important part of the hubís role is not just to provide the facilitated office space,
but it provides a forum for these new or developing small businesses to share experience and good
practice and mutual support.
Dawn Bowden: Do you agree with me, First Minister, that initiatives like this can be incredibly
beneficial to small businesses, particularly in their formative years, and have an important
role to play in supporting the continued growth of new businesses in Wales, supplementing
the work done by Business Wales?
Carwyn Jones: Yes, I do, because sharing expertise, good practice and having a network of support
is an important factor for start-ups.
I know the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure, in conjunction with the regional
entrepreneurial acceleration programme, REAP, is currently reviewing the requirements for
incubation space, including the type of spaces that are needed in Wales, in order to make
sure that that provision is available in the future for microbusinesses, some of whom will
grow to be substantially larger and employ more people.
Suzy Davies: 7.
Will the First Minister make a statement on the Hendry review?
OAQ(5)0412(FM) Carwyn Jones: We welcome it as it supports
the case for developing a tidal lagoon energy industry in the UK and for the specific recognition
it gives to the Welsh projects already under development around the Welsh coast.
Suzy Davies: Thank you for that.
I think we all welcome itóyou, me and other Assembly Members in this Chamber.
What we donít need, of course, is the issue of the marine licence holding up any progress.
Bearing in mind that I raised the delay with the marine licence with you in September 2015,
how often has your Government chased NRW to come forward with that licence in the last
16 months, and what reason has NRW given you for its very late species impact report, which,
presumably, will inform the decision?
Carwyn Jones: NRW are an armís-length organisation and there is a limit to what we can appropriately
say to them as theyíre determining a marine licensing application, although I will say
this: the application needs to be determined as swiftly as possible.
I think we all understand in this Chamber the importance of the tidal lagoon, too, in
terms of jobs.
We do also need to see, of course, a firm commitment now from the UK Government in terms
of the strike price in order to ensure that this very worth-while project goes ahead.
Y Llywydd / The Llywydd: Question 8, Huw Irranca-Davies.
Huw Irranca-Davies: Diolch, Lywydd.
We were delighted that Charles Hendry took the time to visit the Assembly last week and
to brief Assembly Membersó Y Llywydd / The Llywydd: You need to ask the
questionó Huw Irranca-Davies: I apologise.
[Laughter.]
Huw Irranca-Davies: 8.
What discussions has the First Minister had with the Prime Minister regarding the Swansea
Bay Tidal Lagoon since the Hendry report was published?
OAQ(5)0409(FM) Huw Irranca-Davies: Thank you.
Carwyn Jones: Could I thank the Member for the heads up on his supplementary?
Not directly with the Prime Minister, but I know that the Cabinet Secretary for Environment
and Rural Affairs and the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Infrastructure met Charles
Hendry last week, and officials are certainly in close contact with the Department for Business,
Energy and Industrial Strategy in Whitehall.
Huw Irranca-Davies: Thank you for your patience, Llywydd.
Y Llywydd / The Llywydd: Youíre welcome.
Huw Irranca-Davies: Charles Hendryówe were delighted he was here last week briefing Assembly
Members.
It was a clear and resounding endorsement of the Swansea lagoon as a pathfinder, and
he said in his report, and I quote, Huw Irranca-Davies: ëThe costs of a pathfinder
project would be about 30p per household per year over the first 30 years.í
Huw Irranca-Davies: Thirty pence.
Huw Irranca-Davies: ëA large scale project would be less than 50p over the first 60 years.
The benefits of that investment could be huge, especially in South Wales, but also in many
other parts of the country.
Having looked at all the evidence, spoken to many of the key players, on both sides
of this debate, it is my view that we should seize the opportunity to move this technology
forward now.í Huw Irranca-Davies: So, would the First Minister
note the cross- party support here in the Senedd, the cross-party support among many
Welsh MPs, the cross-sectoral business support, the university support and, whilst we do need
to deal with the remaining environmental concerns, the wider NGO support for this landmark sustainable
energy scheme?
Would he further agree that this, as I said to Charles Hendry when he first came here
to take views, is a no-brainer, or, as he said in his report, ëa no-regrets policyí
for Government, and we would welcome a supportive statement from the UK Government for the pathway
project at the very earliest opportunity?
What can he do to help get that supportive statement?
Carwyn Jones: Very much so, and youíve made that very, very clear.
This is a project that does not just deliver green energy beyond our own lifetimes, which
is not something weíre used to predicting in politics, but thatís the reality of it,
itís also a project that has the potential to create at least 1,300 jobs, particularly
in the Neath Port Talbot area, in the maintenance and manufacturing of the kit thatís required
to generate the energy.
I hope we can get to a position where the marine licensing issue is dealt with, where
the strike price is agreed and we can move forward with a project that can only be of
benefit to the people of Wales.
Hefin David: 9.
Will the First Minister make a statement on recognition given to those who carried out
their national service as Bevin Boys during and after the Second World War?
OAQ(5)0418(FM) Carwyn Jones: I know the Member has a very
firm interest in this issue, and we know that the Bevin boys, many of whom worked in dangerous
conditions in the mines, played an integral part in helping to win the second world war.
It is fitting that a memorial honouring them has been erected at the National Memorial
Arboretum in Staffordshire.
Hefin David: I thank the First Minister for that, and I was recently contacted by my constituent
Mr William Beer of Llanbradach, who turns 91 this year and was a Bevin boy during the
second world war.
When the Bevin boys programme was wound up in 1948, they didnít receive any medals and
their efforts went unrecognised until the VE Day fiftieth anniversary celebrations in
May 1995.
In June 2007, the UK Government announced that former Bevin boys would receive a veterans
badge in recognition of their service.
I feel itís still not enough.
Iím going to be writing to the Bevin Boys Association to ask them to contact my constituent,
but, in the meantime, will the First Minister pay tribute to Mr Beer and people like him,
and recognise his contribution to our countryís security during the second world war?
Carwyn Jones: Indeed, I would, because, even though they were not combatants, of course,
without them, there would not have been the ability to release those who went into the
armed forces, there would not have been the ability to fuel so many of the engines that
were needed in ships particularly, and we know that the economy would have ground to
a halt.
That would have been as debilitating as military reversal.
War pensions, for example, are not devolved.
They have not been applied to Bevin boys.
They are the responsibility of the UK Government, but I would be happy to write to the responsible
Minister in the UK Government to make him aware of the issues that youíve raised today
and, of course, the issue of the war pensions and what should be done now to honour all
those who are still with us who contributed so much to the war effort.
Y Llywydd / The Llywydd: I thank the First Minister.
For more infomation >> Nicki's Guide to the Grand National - Duration: 1:16. 
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