Welcome to another issue of the Ship It Show. Today we're going to
be talking a little bit about employer branding and how companies can recruit
top talent to their team and help augment the team that they already have
or supplement the team that they already have.
I'm here with Jenny Chynoweth, from Kohr Consulting, an absolutely magnificent
talent acquisition consultant available to you if you need her services. You have
a website? Jenny: I do. It's not quite up and running, but it'll be ready soon. It's
kohrconsulting.com. Rob: Great, so we were talking just before we
got in the studio about three things that you could do if you are a leader
who's used to working in a technical recruiting environment. So if you come
from a company that does a lot of technical recruiting and you're moving
into a company that doesn't have as much capability within the recruiting
pipeline, the technical recruiting pipeline. We were talking about three
quick wins that you could get, or three things that you can do to very quickly
improve your chances of success in recruiting some some top talent. So the
first one was really thinking about setting an SLA for responsiveness. You
had some thoughts on how that's different in tech and the expectation
level for tech candidates. Jenny: Yeah, I'm actually dealing with that
right now. One of my clients is a toy manufacturer, and I have come to them
recently. I've been with them for about amonth. Having worked
for startups, working at Amazon for seven years,
coming into this environment and realizing they had one recruiter...
I think they hadn't really formed an applicant tracking system, no way to
track the candidates. There was a lot of confusion that was going on with their
recruitment programs. So for the past month or so I've been trying to build a
process for them and implement some SLAs, which are service level agreements.
So coming up with timelines and expectations for how quickly you have to
move on candidates in this market. You have to move quickly or
they're going to go away. Rob: And what are those expectations?
If I email or I apply for a job or I follow up with a question or whatever,
how responsive does the market expect a top-tier
employer to be? Jenny: I think it's imperative that every company have an
applicant tracking system that works, that's functioning. As soon as you
apply for a position—and we've all been there on the other side as a candidate,
wondering, 'What's going on with my application? I have no idea what's
going on.' So I believe that every candidate should receive an
automatic email that says, 'We got your application. Thank you. We'll be looking
at it. We'll let you know.' My rule of thumb is a SLA of 48 hours on turnaround.
So that candidate should hear back within 48 business hours, whether or
not we're gonna move forward in the process with a phone screen or if, 'We are
sorry, this isn't a fit. But we'll keep your information on hand, and there may
be something in the future.' So 48 hours to reply to them. And then I
want to make sure that that conversation happens within that workweek as well.
Because, again, if we don't get these candidates going through the pipeline
quickly, they're gonna go away Rob: Right, other people are gonna
take them from you or they're going to lose the attention
on your company. You talked a lot about candidate
experience. There's a lot of discussion around customer experience
and how companies have set the bar for an order email and
making sure that their customer service is responsive. And if you have an issue,
people get back to you. I like the way that you think about that in terms
of a candidate experience. You wouldn't wait two days to tell someone
that they placed an order on your website. But some some companies
are so backed up—and it's not their fault, they just don't have the system in
place—that it takes even two weeks to get back to
a candidate and say, 'Hey, we got your resume.' I like the way that you think
about that candidate experience. Jenny: We have a 4.4%
unemployment rate in Washington State, which is one of the lowest in
history right now. So candidates are going to find a job somewhere if you
don't move fast enough. If you're the last person to reach out to them, you're
the last person that they're going to think about as an employer. So it's not
only moving quickly but also
treating them with kindness and respect. I think a lot of that gets lost in the
recruiting process as well. That whole experience is just really about
realizing these are humans. I've had hiring managers in the past that have
laughed and torn a resume up and thrown it into the waste can,
thinking it's really funny. And inside I'm dying because that
is a human being that you're talking about. So let's treat it
with a little bit more respect than what you've just done. Rob: The
next one we talked about was expectations of the size of the funnel.
I found this pretty impressive that
you have these numbers memorized, but it was 1,000 outreaches at the top, a
hundred applicants, so that's 1 in 10. And then 25 phone screens, so one in four end
up in a phone screen with a recruiter. And then the recruiter passes
on five of those to the hiring manager to screen, of which you get two to three
interviews. And then you get one hire. So at the top of that
funnel, that's a thousand touches. Jenny: So that can be anything
from posting the position, and it reaches a thousand different people, or
you get on LinkedIn and reach out to people.
Or you're using some more creative outreach methods. Github is a great
place to get tech people. Or Stack Overflow. Look who's making the comments
and reach out to them. Find their Twitter handle and tweet at them. There's a
variety. Find out who are the speakers at a conference that you're really excited
about attending. If you're looking for a Ruby on Rails engineer, go and look at
the last Ruby on Rails conference and see who spoke there. You can track down
their email address or their Twitter handle or what have you. But a
thousand of those outreaches—they're not gonna all get back to you—but you'll
eventually narrow it down to about a hundred. And out of that hundred, you
trickle down to a hire out of the pipeline—in a perfect world.
Rob: It's a large volume. I think in other roles—
I don't have very much experience— but I know in executive roles,
you don't deal with that much volume. And certainly in other roles, people
are coming to you. And you're talking about ten applicants for every
one hire. It's very, very different in tech, because as you say,
it's a an employee's market. People can get four or five different job
offers. I always remember a bit of advice, which is, if you're an
applicant for a job, you're interviewing the company as much as they're interviewing you.
That matters for the candidate experience. That's the
your welcome to the company, whole recruiting
experience. And if it's a smooth flight and the company is responsive and
they're treating you with respect, it bodes well for your continued
relationship with a company. Jenny: Yeah and doing something creative.
So, for instance, I've worked at a company and ... You can't pay people to
come in and interview because they're not on your payroll. So we
would make a donation on their behalf to a nonprofit organization. That
basically said, 'Look, we know your time is valuable. So thank you for coming in. On
behalf of you, we're going to be donating $100 to XYZ Nonprofit
organization.' That kind of puts that personal touch on it like, 'Okay, you do
value my time. Rob: There's also finding ways to be creative like that at the
right point in the funnel. Because you can't do that for a thousand people
top of the funnel. So when you get down like, what can
you do at each step of the funnel or the pipeline that results in that little bit
of personalization? Jenny: Gosh, it can be just as simple
as listening to someone. Recruiters don't listen, and that's unfortunate, and
a lot of interviewers in general. So just showing an interest in what they have to
say. People are going to pick up on it, if you're not interested in what they have
to say. And if if they're not a fit, be honest with them. That's the other thing:
authenticity. Just being real with people goes a long
way, rather than someone that's trying to pretend that it's going to be great, and
then you find out you never were even a candidate for the role. So I think being
being truthful and honest is really helpful. Rob: It really is that focus on
candidate experience, when you think about it. And then the
last thing we talked about was who does what. In tech I think that's
very, very different. You're dealing with a hiring manager who is used to looking
at resumes, is used to screening people, is used to kind of massaging stuff. And
you're maybe telling with the recruitment team, who's used to doing all
that for the hiring manager and feels like that's where they add value. And also a
hiring manager that can look at a resume and say, 'There's just something wrong
with this resume. I can't tell you what it is.' So how does that
partnership work, and what are some tips for how to make sure that you're
interfacing well with each other and that you're helping each other get to
the right outcome? Jenny: I'm glad you said 'partnership' because that's always
been my philosophy as a recruiter. This is not about recruiting servicing
the hiring manager or the hiring manager creating roadblocks for recruiting. It's
about how we are going to achieve this goal together. This is something we both
want to accomplish, so how are we going to get there together. It
does change. So in in my perfect little philosophy of the
responsibility pipeline, the candidate applies for a role. There's a
recruiter interview that takes place, a phone screen. If that goes well, it goes
to the hiring manager for the phone screen. If the hiring manager goes well,
if it's a tech position we can maybe do a technical test. And then we bring
them on-site. They meet no more than four or five people. More than that is too
much. From there you can move into as far as
offer stage. Retail companies? Somebody that works at a
retail store in the mall, I read a Glassdoor review the other day
where the hiring manager or the manager of the the retail store brought in three
people and did a group interview with those three people at the food court. I
don't think that's the best experience. But if you are doing a mass hiring
like that, you get creative. Rob: Yes, it is very different when you're doing mass hiring,
when we're trying to interview a lot of candidates, versus when you're trying to
interview a few candidates. What I think is interesting is, the pipeline
numbers that you described earlier feel like mass hiring at the top of the
pipeline. But they feel like very, very high-touch hiring at the bottom of the
pipeline. So you have to kind of retool how you're thinking about that
and how your approach changes through the pipeline with candidates. Jenny: Definitely.
Rob: Well, thank you very much for coming. Jenny: Thanks for having me
I appreciate it. Rob: Thanks for watching. We'll see you next week.
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