>> Welcome back, everyone to GDC live,
right here in beautiful San Francisco.
I'm like a huge fanboy over here.
I'm geeking out because
I've played your game a while ago.
So I've Brandon Wilson from System Era,
the game is Astroneer.
>> Yeah.
>> I played this game, I think,
it was in early alpha going into alpha.
I geeked out, we are live streaming it for hours.
The Adam from the team jumped in.
I was like how cool is this like one of
the devs comes in and talking to us.
>> He loves to do that.
>> So I am so
excited to have you here to talk about the game,
and what you're doing over at System Era.
So maybe first, if people
aren't like me and never heard of Astroneer,
just give a little bit about yourself,
and a little bit about the game and System Era.
>> Yes. So my name is Brandon Wilson,
and I'm a Studio Head General Manager,
also an engineer, wear a lot of hats at System Era.
We're a small company when we launched
and we made Astroneer as our only game.
We launched that game in December 2016 into Early Access,
so you can get it in Early Access on Steam,
but also in "Game Preview" for the Microsoft Store.
So you can buy there for Windows 10.
And we're also on Xbox One.
So you can get it on those 3 platforms.
On the Windows Store,
it's an XPA title,
so that means Xbox play anywhere.
>> Okay, Xbox Play Anywhere. What does that mean?
>> Xbox Play Anywhere is a program where you can
make a game for any Microsoft device.
And as a customer,
you buy it once, and you own it
through for all the devices that it's compatible with it.
>> Got it.
>> It can mean other things too,
so depending on what the game supports.
So in our case, if you buy it,
if you own it on Windows and
XBox which again is one purchase,
you get cross-platform saves
and you get Cross-Platform Multiplayer.
>> Oh, nice.
>> So you can play the game on Xbox,
save your game, pick it up again on Windows.
And if you have a friend who plays it on Windows
then you play it on Xbox,
you can play together multiplayer.
>> That's a huge perk, yeah,
because all the time I'm just
jamming on my Xbox because my PC,
I call it a supercomputer, but it's really not.
I saw Rocks and OGTX cards,
but Mac' s Xbox One I know it's going to work, so...
>> So that's a really nice perk.
>> It's like a mix. So like a lot of people
have terrible PCs, they want to play it on Xbox,
but a lot of people have
really great gaming PCs that
are much more powerful than the console.
And so we've had people use
their Windows version as like an Xbox dedicated server.
So their friends can play, and connect
always to their Windows block which
is just like running the game all the time.
So you can use it in cool ways, for sure.
>> So what is Astroneer?
Someone brand new go like what is this cool logo?
What is it? What's your pitch?
>> It's a space exploration sandbox game,
there's survival elements, there's creative elements.
So you play as a solo astronaut that we call Astroneers.
You have the Pioneers or engineers.
You play solo, you can play co-op up to four people,
and you are kind of an adorable vanguard
of humanity on these exotic solar systems.
And you don't really know
why you're there when the game starts,
and so you're exploring, you're uncovering Rex,
you're researching things,
unlocking objects to build out your base.
We're in early access,
so a lot of the endgame elements and like
narrative story is not really present
and we're building out a lot of
the underlying foundational features.
We put out a lot of big new updates
recently that have been pretty well received,
so pretty proud of that.
>> That's awesome.
>>The game, yeah. So the game has
a lot of content to operate now,
but we're constantly putting in new content every month.
>> That's really cool and even when I was playing it
over a year ago at this point, I mean,
just dropped down into this plan,
you have no idea of anything.
And to me, it was really cool.
You have this gun, you're like sucking up stuff.
You're doing some converting into metals,
but what I really thought was really interesting about
the game is the collaboration aspect of it.
>> Yeah.
>> Which is that, yeah,
I'm all about sucking up,
creating these tubes, getting my oxygen as far,
but all my friends, they're like engineer brains and
their out crane is base that
is "doing it all" sorts of stuff, it's crazy.
So can you talk about the other aspects
of what you're doing and what the end goal is, I guess.
>> Yeah. Well like you say, it's a, fundamentally,
it's a cooperative game.
We didn't really want to build in too much competition.
There's no weaponry.
You're not really killing each other, certainly.
There are hostile elements
that are going to threaten you,
that could kill you, but it's a game for all ages.
It's a game you'd play with your kids and family.
It's about helping each other proceed,
and so the goal: What are you doing on these planets?
There's the sort of public
back story and then there's like mysteries.
>> Okay.
>> We haven't talked about yet, but
the public backstory is that it takes place in
the near future where humanity has
discovered a novel way to travel between the stars.
So you have faster than light speed travel.
So you can get these new solar systems.
But all the other technology behind
space exploration is familiar.
It's like similar to what we already have.
It's like Mark Watney in the Martian, right?
And because there is
this cheap way to get between the stars,
it's like there's a groundswell of
volunteers coming in who want to be space explorers,
and it's like the Klondike Gold Rush, but in space.
So you got thousands of people coming in,
and they're not like NASA astronauts.
They're just like basic training,
thrown out into space, dropped on a planet,
trying to strike it rich.
So that's the kind of setting you're in.
And so you're being outfitted by this corporation
called "XO Corporation" and
they're just dropping on these planets,
and kind of leaving you to defend for yourself,
and if you find valuable stuff, cool.
But that, of course,
isn't the end of the story.
>> Okay, yeah.
>> We're working. There's going to
be a lot of content coming in there.
>> Well, you brought a trailer of all
some of the new content. Do you want to play it back?
>> Yeah, absolutely. This is a little trailer
for our last update which we called "the
base building update". It came out in February.
If you'd played the game when we launched,
there was a certain method that you used to build out
your bases and it
spider-webbed out in this network kind of graph thing,
and you couldn't re-position anything.
You didn't have a lot of
choice in how you lay things out.
So this update completely changes all of that up,
and so you can repack your base,
move everything around, customize
everything, have mobile bases.
There's a lot more to do,
so I'll get it going here.
>> Yeah. Let's take a look.
>> So.
>> Yeah.
>> All of these things just brought me
back to the first moment I played it.
Everything so happy, going around,
and then all of a sudden, there's this big windstorms.
It reminds me of Wally.
>> Yeah.
>> You know?
>> Yeah, yeah.
>> I remember I was like,
get inside, get underneath.
And there's all these other great aspects.
And so, what was the inspiration for this?
Is everyone on the team like big space buffs
or like, what's going on?
>> Kind of. Yeah. So, the team,
when we founded the team.
We were four people.
And that's kind of what brought us together.
We were really into
aerospace history from NASA and the moon landings,
the Mercury astronauts, through the Apollo program
up to this sort of
modern direction of private space exploration.
And so, yeah.
We wanted to make a game that
kind of a bit inspiring to people.
To maybe get involved in this, in this subject.
I think it's super exciting. I think it's kind of like
a defining issue of the time right now.
So, you look at what Space X is doing.
Elon Musk and Bezos in this sort
of billionaire rivalry going on.
>> Yeah.
>> They kind of that cool fertile ground
for a narrative. And so, yeah.
And then, at the time that we kind of came together,
I was really being inspired by things like Cosmos,
like Carl Sagan's original presentation, the Cosmos.
And then, Neil deGrasse Tyson
put the new kind of reboot of it.
And those things really focus on the sort of
joy of discovery and sort of like the wonder,
like almost like religious wonder
at the beauty of the universe.
And so, that's a lot of like the spirit of the game,
kind of comes from that, like the colorful nature,
the happy kind of surface to it is
we want people to feel
joy in playing the game and discovering new things.
Predominantly at least, right?
>> Yeah.
>> There's also a terrifying moment
because space is dangerous.
>> It is. Yeah.
>> We want to present that dynamic.
>> Yeah. It's really cool because I'm in Seattle,
benn in Seattle for quite a few years and
I even go to the science center
up there, the Pacific Science Center.
And I'll go into the planetarium,
and I'll just take you like the stars tonight.
You know what I mean? And to me,
it, it just brings that kids side of me back.
It was learning about space.
And now, you're right, with
Space X and all these great ventures,
some of the stuff that is happening,
everyone in our Slack channel is like job.
Like, are you watching this?
Like those like self-propelled down.
It is like a new found glory of space exploration [inaudible].
>> And you get Elon Musk saying things like,
"I'm going to die on Mars or I wanted to have Mars."
And then there's like the Mars,
and if you heard of the Mars One project,
and it's like they're taking
volunteers for people who are
going to be the first colonist.
It like, we kind of have to be a little bit
crazy to want to do that.
And so to me,
that's what's the Astroneer's are.
It's like these kind of crazy people
who just throw themselves out there
with potentially no hope of coming back, you know.
>> Yeah.
>> But maybe if they do come back,
it's like for glory.
>> Yeah. So, let's
talk about the game development side of it.
You said you're on Xbox,
you have it on the Windows store,
you have it on Steam, you have them on a bunch of
home platforms and there was different aspects to it.
So, what are some of
the challenges of how it was built? How was it built?
What is some of the development side of it?
You were at the developers conference.
So, can you talk a little bit about
the dev side of it and how you built out the team?
>> Yeah. So, I said before.
It was four of us to start.
A very small team. And the game
kind of grew in scope quite a bit.
So, we spent the first year
building out a version of
the game that was like a proof of concept.
You have a spherical worlds that were deformable.
So, had a procedural terrain
but it almost presented more like an RTS.
>> Okay.
>> It was also totally a lot darker,
and played, and then the interactions were very familiar.
A lot more like Minecraft.
>> All right. I see. I got it.
>> So, some of the technology for that version of
the game survives in
the present game. But we really rebuilt.
About a year in, we kind of pivoted or
rebuilt the game with a new tone.
We switched to Unreal Engine 4.
It's built in Unreal Engine.
And went into a new direction
with the visual aesthetic
of the game and the interaction style too.
So, I said before that it was kind of traditional,
where you'd interact with your-.
You drop down base elements, walk up to them,
press a button and bring up a grid menu,
and that's how you interact.
And so, you had this dynamic where you had this world,
where you can walk around and you
can kind of see things and deform the terrain,
so the ground itself felt really dynamic.
But everything else was like,
you're just interacting with menus.
>> I see.
>> And so, we had this feedback. It was like, "Yeah.
It's cool that you can shape the terrain."
But then, they can't do anything with it.
>> What's the purpose?
>> Nothings like physical in the world.
It [inaudible] That goes with ecstatic. So, we're like, Okay.
Well, we wanted to get that jury rigging feeling.
Being an astronaut on another planet,
something goes wrong, you've got to figure something out.
And so, we want that to feel really deeply interactive.
And so, like let's try
making everything in the game in-world,
so that instead of interacting with a menu,
you're just like walking things up in the world and
sucking them into each other and
like creating functionality that way.
And we just ran with that idea.
>> Nice.
So, that's what we call
the Diegetic interactions come from.
And then the tone of the game shifted from being-.
Because of that,
the tone of the game shifted to
being a lot more toy like.
because it didn't felt like you're
playing, you're playing with your self.
It is more toy like. And so-.
>> That reminds me of playing with my Lego's.
>> Exactly.
>> Given that feelings, I was a big Lego kid growing up.
They remind me of plugging these parts.
And then what was cool about it is,
I kept discovering new aspects
of what the team has built.
A good example is the backpack that I have on.
There's all these like gizmos and gadgets and there's,
of course, air that you need.
And it's fun when
someone else does something, you're like, "Oh.
I didn't know that there are radar
did that or there's a different piece.".
>> That was like a part of the-.
Part of the challenge of any game is
like teaching people how to use it,
and how to play it.
And so,
what we've found is that when we went in this direction,
everything is really tactile and in the world.
You can teach people visually and you
can let people just kind of explore.
Just socket things together,
piece things together, see what works, see what doesn't.
When you're a kid, nobody gives you the Lego tutorial.
>> Yeah.
>> You just start snapping
things together and seeing what you like and then
maybe your friend does something
and you're like, that's super cool.
I want to do that too,
and feel like that's kind of
the direction that became involved in.
>> Yeah, I love it. I love it.
So you mentioned a little
bit that the game is out, people can get it.
You kind of did this pre-alpha
and now it's in this office.
Can you talk about the stages of
the development like when you guys are ready to release.
Did you have a private Beta?
I'm thinking like a lot of
game developers maybe getting started.
What would you teach them about
that release process because there's
so many new ways of getting your game out,
whether it's I'm going to do a Kickstarter,
I'm going to release it on Greenlight,
or I'm going to put it over here.
What are some of the things that
the team learned from that process?
>> I mean it really
depends on the specific situation the team is in.
We thought about doing a Kickstarter.
So we made that prototype
and we did it to sort of our friends and
family super closed Beta kind
of thing with like 30 or 50 people.
And that's where we developed it and we got a lot of
that early feedback that caused
us to change the direction of the game.
So that was super critical.
And I'm very happy that we
didn't release the game in that state.
Once we change, once we kind
of had the final direction for the game,
then it was like, Okay how do we get it built?
How do we get it built to
our satisfaction and in a timely fashion.
We only had four people at that time and were like,
well, and then eventually we were in I think six
people by the time we released into early access.
And we kind of knew that we couldn't make the game to
the extent that we wanted to build it
with just those people and just our personal funds.
>> Yeah.
>> And so we were thinking about Kickstarter.
But there were things about those models
that we didn't really
like with Kickstarter as an example.
It can work but it kind
of hinges on making a lot of
promises early in development that you,
maybe you're not sure if they're going to pan
out but you have to try to keep them anyway.
And then, there's a lot of other things
like you tend to have
to start to focus on all these kind
of bonus tier packages and things you're going
to promise to send people when the game is finished,
which can be distracting from the actual game.
So we're like, We want to just
focus on building the game itself.
So ultimately, early access was a way that
we could get the game
out there for people to get their hands on,
and also kind of ensure that the game could get made.
>> Scale correctly because of the servers.
How did the server part of that work?
Is there servers that are managing everything?
What's that technical side of it?
>> Yeah, we don't actually have servers.
So we have co-op multiplayer
but when you're connecting to a game,
you're connecting to directly to your friends.
So it's called a listen server.
It's sort of more peer
to peer, it's on a dedicated server.
We're just, I mean, we are building.
So yeah, we were poor and very time constrained.
So we didn't build out
our own multiplayer back end service infrastructure,
which is where you have to have your own servers,
your own kind of player log in system.
So we use Steam directly.
We use the Windows and Microsoft Infrastructure directly.
That was one of the reasons
that we chose to be on very few stores.
So we're on Steam,
we're on the Microsoft platform,
and those are sort of separate multiplayer ecosystems.
We didn't want to be in a lot of other stores.
There's other stores out there that
you could be on on PC, you could be on GOG,
could be an green manned gaming, and stuff like that.
We wanted to avoid that because it meant
that if you bought on one of those other stores,
you can't play with your friendly bot on Steam.
>> Got it.
>> And that is still the case right now if you buy it
on Xbox and your friend buys
it on Steam like you can't really play together.
So we're working on that at this stage of development and
building those dedicated servers
that would allow people to play together.
So that's pretty exciting.
>> It's kind of taking what you have and I think you
kind of hinted
really good something about Kickstarter is.
And I always talk about in software development
is if you add something,
you can't really remove it.
And if you promise stuff,
you have the expectations there.
So it sounds like you went into
an early access just to say like, is this working?
You know that it's working,
just getting the feedback is that multiplayer working,
and how did you learn from the process though?
Was it happened in a lot of the Livestream?
What was the learning aspect of it?
>> We came in Superhot, it's early access.
And it really caught us off guard like
we've sold a lot of copies.
We had a lot of fan support.
I was telling myself at the time that I would have been
happy to get like
5 percent of what we got in the first year.
And five or 10 percent. And we've got way more than that.
And so, we were kind of planning
on having a quiet start and then
working with a smaller audience of
dedicated fans that had by
the end of the game and listen to their feedback.
What we got was like a sort of rush of
a ton of people which we are super thankful for.
But that also means that only a handful of
those people are really
committed to the early access concept.
And are really going to be engaged in the feedback.
And a lot of the people are just like they want to
just have fun and play the game and not have any bugs.
>> Yeah.
>> And have a good experience
and we want to give that to people.
But we were perhaps
a little bit less prepared than we could have been.
And I think if I would've done it again,
there's definitely would put even more effort in
on the stability and the performance side of things.
Like we launched with, so PC,
you have to handle such
a huge variety of different hardware.
>> Yeah.
>> And I came from console development.
And I worked on Halo.
>> Yeah, one.
>> We're working on the Xbox 360.
We work on the Xbox One, there's one set of hardware.
>> Yeah.
>> You tested on one machine.
Everything works. You're guaranteed
that it works on everybody's box.
>> Yeah.
>> On PC, we launch the game and of course,
you think you're going to launch and
then take a break for a week.
But it was like launch the game,
immediately start getting E-mails from people saying,
the game isn't running on my machine.
So we had like whole classes
of processors that the game couldn't root for.
And so, we're putting out Day 1 patches,
Day 2 patches to make sure people can play the game.
So yeah, I mean, my advice
to people releasing games on PC,
if they've never done it before is like,
do some compatibility testing,
get a lot of machines in,
get different hardware, tests
it on as many things you can,
make sure that the people can play the game like bugs.
Maybe there's some flaws in the game.
>> Yes.
>> But if they can't launch it at all,
that's the problem.
>> They get real mad really fast.
>> Yes.
>> So we said we mentioned that it's on
the windows store that you can download it and buy it,
and then you also get it immediately for your Xbox one.
So you basically have the game twice,
and then you can cross play with anyone,
and that's a weird thing too, cross play.
So what are some of
the motivations to go down that route?
You didn't have to, you already had the Steam part of it.
What was the motivation there,
what was some of
the things that you liked about that process?
>> We always wanted it to be a cross play game.
So whether you bought it on Steam,
like no matter what where you got the game,
we want people to be able to play together.
But to do that ordinarily,
like to do that between say Steam and the
Consoles is quite a lot of work,
was too much for us to handle at
the size of your app, when we launched,
but the XPA program
gives you that with a lot less effort,
because you're building for a kind of they
call UWPs, Universal Windows Platform.
It means that in theory,
you're building one version of the app and it just
runs on both platforms.
So that allowed us to test
the cross platform experience
without having to build all the other infrastructure.
Because there are things, like in our game,
the planets were totally procedural,
and you can deform all of the terrain in multiplayer,
and so being able to
fairly easily get that set up and tested,
and make sure that if you're playing on an Xbox,
and you're playing on a PC
with could be very different hardware,.
>> Yeah, very different hardware. Yes.
>> And your getting the same
results and that is compatible,
allows us to kind of baby step towards
sort of full cross platform and cross
network capabilities with
dedicated servers and things like that.
And it just like a great value proposition for people,
being able to say, hey you buy it
once and you have it for multiple devices is really cool.
>> And makes sense.
And on the developer side of
it we're talking a little bit kind of about
like what services the Microsoft ecosystem offers.
Can you talk about what the team enjoyed
about that actual backend bits and
how this submission process goes
because I used to work on Xbox 360 games.
>> Yes.
>> Going into Xbox One, Xbox Live Arcade program.
I know about certification process.
>> Yes.
>> Which are fun. So can you talk
a little bit about that, like learning experiences.
>> Yes, so getting your game-
You're talking about getting your game
published basically like this?
>> Basically game published, probably yes.
>> What it takes to go through that
on all the different platforms.
And you're right like if you're
coming from console development you know that getting,
going live on console is a big process.
Certification is a big process.
But they develops the,
it was then called the Windows stores now called
the Microsoft store, it's more unified.
They developed it really for like app development
on the windows phones
and small app development on Windows.
And so, they really streamlined those processes.
So you have really like push,
there is a certification process
where they're going to check your storefront.
They're going to check that the game
runs and it doesn't crash. But it's really push-button.
It's really streamlined. It's designed
for getting small apps onto the phones.
And so they brought that
to game development and they've been
trying to unify that with the Xbox, with Xbox games,
Xbox live and an enabling self publishing
for independent games on
the Microsoft platform and
so certification is a lot smoother.
They made it a lot faster.
There's different features they offer now,
like, you can do flighting,
where you can release the game for
a selected retail audiences like
maybe just your employees,
or just your friends and family,
or like a selected wider audience
so you could do AB testing.
They have a bypass program
where like if your game passed cert.
many times in a row then you can be sort
of auto-pass you and you can test it yourself.
>> Yes.
>> And still you get a problem
and it will kind of kicked you back into the purgatory.
But there's also a lot
of features that I
kind of liked about the Microsoft store
especially as a self
published independent developer that
doesn't have the support of
a big publisher who's kind of used to- who has
the publishing process dialed-in like
just turning other sausages.
>> Yes, they out of the marketing in place,
they've done it in a whole bunch of
times or you're coming from
a big franchise that
like halo that's going to sell, right?
>> Yes, a home or just
think you're an independent developer.
You're generally heads down, just building the game.
But then it comes time to actually get the game
to market and there's all this like go
to market activity that you've got to do that is
what publishers are usually offering people.
And that's stuff like localizing your game,
getting your age ratings done.
Setting up telemetry and crash reporting and like
all these things that aren't really related
to the kind of commodity features,
they're not really- they're sort
of the same for all games,
they're not related to the game itself.
But if you've never done them before and you're doing
it yourself, it's time consuming.
And so, I think
what Microsoft offered that other platforms didn't was,
that a lot of these things
are kind of starting to roll into
the platform as features
that you can just take advantage of.
So age reading is like one of my favorite examples.
Normally, or in the past, to get age rated,
you'd have to do
a submission with like all the individual agencies.
You have ESRB in North America,
you've got PEGI in Europe,
you have Australia and New Zealand have COB,
there is Siroe in Japan
because every region and country has their own agency,
you'd better run, you got to do
a submission that costs money.
It takes a ton of times was like the kind of thing that
like indie developers just
don't do and just don't get age rated.
Which would disqualify you for
releasing for the Xbox for example.
>> Yes.
>> Age rated.
>> You got to do it.
>> So, the Microsoft store they've got
a partnership with IARC which is
the International Age Rating Coalition.
They kind of for digital titles,
have a unified submission process
to kind of fill out a survey,
describe the game, describe all of
the most violent aspects of your game.
And they evaluate that and
they partner with all of the regional ratings agencies.
>> Yes.
>> And you get your ratings back, it's free.
>> That's cool.
>> You got rated for every body.
>> That's nice, yes.
>> And then that allows you to submit.
And again they was designed because they had this volume,
this app volume for
mobile apps that they
needed to streamline this process for.
And now we get to take advantage of it.
>> Well, streamline in the game really [inaudible] ,
it is really cool.
>> Yes, so that's a good feature.
Telemetry is another one that
Windows Store does, that's pretty good.
So you get pretty good visibility into what your game is
doing and the kind of composition of your audience
and what your daily active users are.
You get some interesting information of
what kinds of players coming
from Xbox live or in your game,
what your retention is and like what kind
of effect your updates are having on the audience.
>> Oh, that's cool.
Track your progress automatically of
how things are, just the health of the game.
>> Exactly, the health of the game.
And so it's the kind of thing
that's really important nowadays to have.
If you are a bigger company, you're going to
have the services set up or you're going to
be partnered with a sort
of heavyweight outsourced companies
that can do this stuff.
If you're a small indie you may not have that,
so it's really useful to
have that built into the platform.
>> So, in the last three minutes here, what's next?
For finale for System Era,
for Astroneer. What's next?
What can everyone that's gone out
now that they've purchased it and they're ready to play.
What can they expect coming next?
>> We've had a period after we
launched early access where we we kind of went dark.
We didn't have a lot of updates, because we were we
kind of had to scale up
the team and then really
redesign some of the core features to make and scalable.
But we've been putting up
big regular monthly updates
since about October last year.
So we've really started to reorganize the game
and update the features and get a lot more content in.
So people can expect to see
a lot more content rolling in month to month,
every month, every two months,
major updates like the one that we just looked at,
and we are really- we don't
want to be one of those games whose
in early access for like five years.
We are aiming to be out of
early access within the next year.
So we're working hard towards that and I think
that people will be pretty
happy with a lot of the content that is coming in.
>> Awesome.
>> Yes.
>> Yes, Well thank you for coming on here GDC live.
It's been awesome just like inside,
just so excited it's
like have the opportunity to talk with you,
I'm going to go home.
It's all the updates get all the hotness.
Make sure you check it out Astroneer,
just go buy it, it's absolutely amazing.
Because I love it makes me feel like a kid
all over again especially playing with friends.
Brendan, thank you so much for coming on.
>> Oh, It's my pleasure. Thanks for having me.
>> So stay tuned for more from GDC live.
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