(bright dynamic musical jingle)
(birds chirping and calling)
- Thank you Lucy, that was perfect, a great way
to sort of start the session.
I particularly loved the photograph of the,
that sort of bus plaza where the two people walking
sort of completely obliviously with this huge,
and I think it's to do with culture as well,
a deep-seated culture of understanding
that transit's a part of the city.
And that it's part of everyday life.
So look, that was perfect, sets the scene ideally.
So look, what I want to do now is we're going to give Lucy
a bit of a break to have a glass of water or wine
or whatever you want
and I'm going to introduce the panelists.
They're going to come up one at a time.
As they come up I'm going to introduce
and talk a little bit about them.
So first up is Shane, so Shane Ellison.
Shane is our chief executive, the new chief executive
at Auckland Transport.
Shane has been the CEO, oh you're getting a clap.
(audience applauding)
Shane's been the CEO since December and we're all working,
a lot of us are working very closely
with Shane and his team.
He's arrived at a really important moment
in our genesis as a city.
So as a really key player, and so it's great
to have you here tonight, Shane, thank you.
He has over 20 years experience globally
as a senior leadership roles in transport
and infrastructure sectors.
Most recently Shane was an international development officer
and chief operating officer for the New South Wales
in Queensland for Transdev.
They're the world's largest private operator
of public transport.
Really importantly also Shane has worked
all around the world, particularly in Europe
and also in North America.
So it's great to have him as our new CEO
and it's good to have him here tonight.
Next up tonight is Michael Hale.
Michael's a public health medicine specialist
at the Auckland Regional Public Health Service,
so Michael do you want to join us up on the stage?
(audience applauding)
Dr. Hale is a public health medicine specialist
at the Auckland Regional Public Health Service
where he is the clinical lead for nutrition,
physical activity promotion, healthy urban form,
and a word I'd never known before it says Pertussis,
is that right, the right pronounce?
- Whooping cough.
- Which is whooping cough, which I didn't know.
So Pertussis, Per-tu-sis.
He's part of the Healthy Auckland Together coalition
which is changing our city, so it is easy for our people
to eat well and to be active.
So these themes are powerful and linked.
Michael has over 14 years experience
in the public health sector, including roles
in the Heart Foundation, the National Screening Unit, and
and, yeah sorry.
Public Health Service and
apologies for that.
So yeah, thank you, thank you Michael.
I don't know where the rest of your introduction is,
I apologize.
That's good, ah here we go, sorry.
I think it's important that we get the full picture.
So you've got 14 years experience
in the public health sector, including roles
in the Heart Foundation, the National Screening Unit,
and the Health Quality and Safety Commission.
Michael is interested in how urban and transport planning
can improve well-being in our neighborhoods
and how we can reduce the promotion
and availability of unhealthy food
in favor of nutritious food.
So thank you for coming tonight.
And last but not least is a gentleman who many of you know,
Councillor Richard Hills.
Richard you want to come and join us on stage.
Richard's, over at my team say we're lucky to have him.
He's a passionate promoter and champion
for alternative modes of transport, including SkyPath,
rail to the North Shore.
He's a very vocal and strong advocate
of public and active transport,
has a huge interest in mental health and well-being
and our team have talked to you a lot about that, Richard.
He's also the deputy chair of the planning committee,
Councillor Darby, is the chair who's here tonight,
which has responsibility for Auckland's sort of
transport, infrastructure, spacial planning,
water and regeneration.
So you're a great ally to have for the city
and we're proud to have you on board,
so thank you for coming tonight.
So look, there's your panelists tonight
who are joining Lucy.
So what we're going to do is we're going to start
with a 20 minute's chat and we're going to see how that goes.
So what I thought we'd do first is we've heard about them
and their roles but what I'd like to do now
is to be a bit pointed and ask about
what you think and how you think.
And that'll give us a sense of who you are
and how it's all working.
So I'm going to direct the first question to Shane.
So look Shane, Lucy's shown us in her presentation
about that link between streets, urban design,
and favoring walking and cycling and public transport
are absolutely critical fundamental to public health.
What do you think of that?
First, and secondly, what is Auckland Transport doing
to ensure that our roads and streets are better designed
for actual travel.
Shane.
Is that working?
Yeah, can everyone hear?
Let's do a quick sound check, 'cause,
do you want to say, hello, hello?
- Hello.
- Okay.
Perfect.
- Lucy can you wave your wand
and just make it all happen now for us, please?
It'd make my job a lot easier.
Look, it's hard to argue with that.
- [Ludo] Yeah.
- We have a very tragic situation in Auckland at the moment,
in our region, with the number of deaths
and serious injuries on our roads
having escalated by 70% between 2014 and 2017.
Lucy touched on the number of
teenagers that are not active.
Sadly, and many of you in the room'll have
secondary school aged children,
or children approaching secondary school.
That situation is far worse.
The number of, and Catherine might correct me,
but the number of secondary school aged children
that were killed or seriously injured on our roads
in 2014 was around 56.
In 2017, that number had grown to over a hundred.
So, if they're not feeling safe on our streets
how are they going to be active, so
yes we've got a lot of work to do.
But thankfully, thankfully, thankfully, thankfully
we have a Council and central government
and a board of Auckland Transport that,
where they are 100% aligned.
We have a once in a generation opportunity to make
transformational change in Auckland.
With the funding that's been achieved through ATAP
and which is targeted at
almost all parts of the model that Lucy's presented.
So we are committed to delivering on that, it won't be easy.
Let's not kid ourselves, it won't be easy.
I'd like to have the wand,
but yes, we're 100% committed to that.
- And you Shane, I mean you're here and you,
are you, what's, you're here for a good time,
because it's important we hold this agenda
for a period of time and not just in and out,
and so what's your commitment to Auckland?
(muffled speaking)
- I mean, I think it's important we recognize that,
I left here in 2004 and I've told this,
many people will have heard me say this,
I've been away for 14 years.
I've come back and it's very easy when you live in the city
day to day to not see the difference.
And a number of people in this city
need to take a lot of credit for what has been achieved
in the last 14 years.
And for those of you who don't know,
2017, we celebrated the first year
where more people came into the city by public transport
than by private vehicle.
That is a huge achievement and it's been done on the back
of a political commitment and,
and it shows the way for the future.
My commitment, I'd love to see the urban cycleway
network completed, the continuation of the investment
in the program business case for walking and cycling.
All the investment in public transport.
All the transformational change that that brings
in terms of public realm.
And the flow on benefits that all that enables.
We have the third biggest population,
third most obese population in the OECD, I mean, it's,
we've got to do something about it.
- Okay, well that's a great start, thank you very much.
That's a great way to introduce Shane to all of you
and to get the conversation going.
Next up we're going to just have a quick question
to you Michael, it's along similar lines a little bit,
but health starts with our streets, we've just heard that,
it's absolutely fundamental.
I guess the active travel program,
the investment in walking and cycling,
public transport, better planning.
What is your District Health Board
and what is your team doing,
how are you part of this conversation,
how are you part of the solutions because obviously
this is all inextricably linked.
So could you just give us a sense
of what you thought about Lucy, what she was saying,
not about Lucy, but the story that's been told here.
And what are you guys doing to be part of that solution?
- Sure, back in 2014 the Health Boards of Auckland
came to our organization recognizing the big impact
that the rising amount of childhood obesity was causing
and asked us to take some leadership
in coordinating a program.
What we've got out of that is
the Healthy Auckland Together group
which has got a little stand over there
that you're welcome to check out some of the activities.
You know, often these things have been the health sector
getting together and it's been really important
with our health partners to do that.
But in this time as well we recognize that
we're good at treating disease,
but most of the causes and most of the levers
for this issue lie well outside of the health system.
And so if we want to make action on physical activity,
action on nutrition, action on obesity,
then we need to be talking to the people who are
in charge of the built environment.
So Auckland Council and Auckland Transport are key partners
in Healthy Auckland Together.
So there's an alliance, a coalition dedicated
to addressing this issue at a city wide level.
So that's been really key to have that platform.
Through that platform we've been,
you know, these different sectors of health
and local government have got together
around the program business case for cycling,
currently around the strategy for safety as well.
We've also recognized something else in the public realm.
Water infrastructure is really lacking in Auckland
and it touches on the Design Office.
But if we were to compare Melbourne or Brisbane
or other cities, we're at a third to a half
of the level of water infrastructure
when we don't even know where it all is.
And that's an important part if we want people to be active,
if we want people to have healthy choices in those realms.
And so we've got together around a project
called Wai Auckland to start improving both infrastructure
and the public promotion of water as a healthy choice,
deliberately aiming to displace sugary sweetened beverages
as a choice there.
So there's a number of tangible actions.
In reference to the Healthy Streets approach,
just a complete endorsement that a healthy street
is a livable street.
I think there's wins for health, wins for good design,
wins for people, so yeah really excited about that.
- Thank you, I mean, I guess Lucy, it was interesting,
coming from the UK originally,
in the councils in New Zealand.
In the UK we would control health, education,
there's police services, that's what the CEOs did
within the local authorities even.
Here that is all in central government.
That is all funded through that.
So I guess that coalition is trying to solve that issue,
but I think, I do think that there needs to be more done
to drive that through because it's about the delivery
on the ground and the two things often don't link.
You know, where do we put schools?
It's really interesting to see that has been
quite separate a conversation to planning
and when it's actually intricate to that.
- Yeah, I agree.
There is a lot of benefits to having them all housed in one.
You know, we can see an example of a successful city
addressing some of these issues, like New York,
where you've got a transport commissioner,
and you've got a public health commissioner
looking at things like size of soft drinks
and that type of thing as well.
And in New Zealand we are in our silos
and so that's particularly why we've taken
this Healthy Auckland Together approach
to bring everyone together to make sure that yeah,
that the built environment is really supporting
the people making healthy choices.
- Okay, well so that's really interesting.
I know we often compete with Australia a lot
in what we talk about and I think we have
more fast food outlets, drive-ins per capita than Australia,
which is not a great achievement.
And I think if you design places to be
easy to do certain activities, people will do that.
And that human beings are, I say often lazy,
but maybe it's they're efficient.
They'll look for the easiest way to do something,
and if you make a city easy to behave in a certain way
they will, so all those pieces need to link together.
So...
- Yeah, I totally agree, it's a systems issue.
And if you're seeing every part of the population
putting on weight or struggling to meet
physical activity guidelines or eat well,
this is not an issue of individual behavioral choice,
it's not a collective failure of good will,
this is us responding to a system that is pushing us
in this direction.
And a system is really good at producing
a very consistent outcome
and we've got a very consistent outcome
and so we need to address the system to change that.
- Fantastic, that's great.
Well that was a theme that Lucy talked about,
the systems thinking, which is critical.
So look, Richard, an interesting question, if you were mayor
in 10 year's time I'll say,
what would you do?
And how would you ensure this is embedded into the thinking
that we're applying for the city?
- Yes, first of all, just want to thank everyone
for all the, we're just the politicians,
many of you are doing the mahi on the ground in this work
or doing the campaigning and the activism
and all the advocacy that gets us to make
the decisions we made for the 10 year budget
and will force us all to make better decisions
and work even harder.
So I just want to put that out there.
And if the hypothetical situation came up,
that I was mayor in 10 years,
Lucy would be the CEO of Auckland Transport
after Shane has left, but.
(audience laughing)
- [Ludo] That's a great answer.
- I think well the obvious answer is that we would do things
based on evidence with our roads and streets
in our cities, town centers.
But also my personal view would be to try and get,
well we would just use the evidence, but the other thing was
to get local people involved but from children
to older people on every street in the area.
So when I was on the local board actually,
I set up some children's panels,
and everyone expected the young people
would ask for outlandish things.
All they wanted was safe walkways, safe streets,
this particular footpath fixed up,
this thing, this light fixed.
It was all the things that are so obvious that we miss maybe
because we're looking at the overall picture.
So you don't, and I don't think the loud voices
of anti-change can really, I mean, they probably can,
but they can tell kids that they're wrong.
I think we'd fix a whole lot more if we just asked kids
is your local street safe, would you cross it,
would you walk to school if you could.
All those sorts of things.
It's bringing young people into the decision making
straightaway, and then it's also that ownership of every,
so it might not be possible to do it on every street
but I'm sure you could get your local schools
to do a proper focus on healthy streets.
And then if you fix it for young people
and you fix it for our oldest people in the community,
then you're probably going to fix it for everyone I think.
- Yeah and,
(audience applauding)
and you're a huge proponent
of the impact of mental health issues as well.
I mean is there any sort of, how's that going in terms of
your position around that and looking at the city
and how we're doing in that space.
What are the things we could do better
and maybe perhaps give us a sense of
what you'd like to achieve from that point of view.
- Yes, I mean, when I first got into,
so I used to work as a youth worker
before I was-- - Oh right, okay.
- On the Council, and I worked mostly with young people
in high schools around Auckland and the biggest issue
constantly was obviously people's mental health,
youth suicide.
You know, some of the young people I worked with
unfortunately took their lives during that time.
There is a lot of negativity, sadness,
and that has a million different factors.
But I think the way our city is built
and the way we interface with nature and art
and happiness and events and other people,
has a huge impact on our mental health.
So if maybe we could meet more people, talk more,
and not just drive home, go behind our gate
and never talk to our neighbors,
maybe if we had more spaces to bump into each other.
Young people could run around on their own
without having to be, parents being afraid
of their kids running out on the streets.
If people were just able to spend more time
in places that weren't just car parks or roads,
that would be, you know, a really good outcome I think.
I mean, I usually bus to work, but the other day I had to,
I didn't have to drive, I chose to drive.
But I drove, I was back and forth all day,
but honestly it was the most,
I think I was more frustrated and more stressed out
than any other day that week.
It was triple the time to get here,
it was the most negative experience.
I'm a people who likes to let people in.
Which is apparently a crime.
So letting people, and people were beeping,
waving their hands, pulling their fingers
because you're just trying to be friendly
to other people on the road.
Which is easy when you're walking or on the bus or whatever
but I think our city currently, we're getting there,
we're moving forward, but is currently designed for
really negative interactions with fake people.
Like it's that cyclist, those cyclists, those, those people,
you know, where it's just, you know, your friend,
I kind of hate using the oh, what if it was your mother, or.
Well it should be what it if was just another human I guess.
And we don't look at people like that
when we're on our way to work if you're in a car.
- That's good, and I think we talk a lot on Twitter as well
and there was that recent tweet
talking about Elon Musk's opinions about public transport
and how, you know, sitting next to somebody
who's sort of socially deprived and you know,
is that any projection thing going on,
which is all around the world and you know,
white middle class men telling everybody else how to live.
And I suppose, you know, it's interesting
having that discussion and when we,
somebody on the tweet said, you know,
when I don't drive I feel more connected.
When I drive I feel more lonely,
and it's an interesting piece of the jigsaw puzzle.
So that whole system of thinking is key.
So look, thank you very much.
Lucy, just bringing you into the discussion for a second
and then we'll try and have a debate.
But, you know, how did it happen?
How on earth did you end up at TFL,
you know I worked there many years ago
and I couldn't imagine them having
a public health specialist running a program at TFL.
What is it that happened, who did you speak to,
who did you convince, because it's easy
to talk about theory, but what happened?
If you don't mind.
- Yeah sure.
So at this present moment in time,
I'm the only public health specialist
working in a transport authority anywhere in the world.
And this is because it's not structurally set up
that that is a thing that happens.
So I was recently described,
and I think it was meant as a compliment,
by a leading academic in the UK,
called Ben Goldacre, he described me as a hustler.
But I took as a positive statement,
but I basically hustled my way in there.
So I went to meet with Transport for London
and I said that I knew a fair bit about the relationship
between transport and health
and I thought I had something to offer them.
And they said, we're on it, we've got it all sorted,
we've even got a publication,
and they showed me their publication.
And it is a picture on the front cover
of a woman cycling past a hospital
and the document is mainly about
how to get a bus to a hospital.
- Nice. - And that was,
that was where we were at in 2013 in London
in terms of understanding the complex relationship
between transport and health.
So I said I thought I might have something
that I could add to this conversation.
And I offered a try before you buy,
it's available to others.
Three months I worked for them,
I was being paid by somebody else
who was happy to let me go and work for them
for three months and see if I could add anything
to what they were doing already.
And then I started working for them part time
and then I built it up, and now I'm actually hiring
a team of people who work directly
for the Transport Authority.
And in my opinion, to make the kind of change that we need
you do have to take people with that public health expertise
and employ them in the organizations
that really have the power.
Partnership working is hard at the best of times
but you can be so much more effective
if you actually work in and with the people
who you want to help to do their job differently, so
I'm a strong advocate for public health
leaving the public health department
and going and sitting with the people
that they want to influence.
- Fantastic, well so really interesting story.
And it's quite, I think Auckland tends to
sort of think that it's,
it's always looking elsewhere for answers
and I think Shane mentioned this earlier, you know,
we've achieved a lot and we need to make sure
we congratulate ourselves 'cause success breeds success
and breeds confidence and with confident staff,
confident councilors, you make better decisions
at the end of the day.
But it's interesting, your program has been
quite globally recognized, I mean I've got people
literally e-mailing from all around the world saying,
we want to hear from Lucy as well.
So how are TFL doing in terms of rolling this out
within their program.
If Shane was to adopt this principle,
what are they doing from a practical delivery point of view.
How's it happening in the reality?
- Yeah, so Healthy Streets is one of those things
that looks deceptively simple
until you scratch under the surface and realize
that actually to deliver those 10 indicators
you not only need to completely turn the way
the transport authority works on its head,
but you also need to get a whole load
of other stakeholders working alongside.
So in London the mayor has embedded
the Healthy Streets approach
in all of his statutory strategies,
so it's not just in the transport strategy,
it's in the policing and crime plan,
it's in the spacial plan, which is called the London Plan.
It's in the environment strategy,
in the health strategy, et cetera.
And that means that all the different parts of the system
have to work together delivering
these 10 healthy streets indicators.
But obviously Transport for London
have got a very very big role in this, and so
what has happened is quite a fundamental change
in the governance of the organization
and the way that money is allocated
and projects are prioritized based on how they're delivering
the Healthy Streets approach.
Because Healthy Streets is about saying
we don't just have a selection
of different modes of transport,
and whichever mode of transport shouts the loudest
gets the most money,
it's about saying our streets are a finite space
between the buildings and how can we get those environments
to work best for people by balancing
all those different modes at the same time,
which is a much much more difficult job.
- Yep, and linking that back to budgets as well
and thinking about they'll be a natural view that
to add these things and to consider these things
is going to be a cost but I perhaps,
you can't afford not to think about this stuff.
So that's probably the best way to--
- Well what I always say is we're spending money
every single day on our streets anyway
and it's not about spending more money,
it's about spending the money differently.
- Great, look, does anyone want to respond to any of that?
I'd like to open up to some questions from the floor.
Does anybody want to ask anything of each other, or,
or we can open to the questions.
- Well, I just-- - Go Richard.
- On Lucy's point about the money,
I thought one of the funniest,
not funny, but the situation around SkyPath,
you know, many years ago the discussion was
the cost, the cost, the cost,
and I could name three road widening projects
that were three times the price of SkyPath.
And at that point SkyPath wasn't going to be
tax or rate payer funded at all,
but yet there was still this terrible kind of discussion
around something that was going to be
for walking and cycling that might cost some money
but then you'd never ever have the same level of discussion
over something like a road widening project,
which is kind of 40 million, 50 million, go ahead do that.
And I think like Lucy said, we're spending the money anyway,
how can we retrofit out streets on every single project
even if maybe at this time we can't do the whole thing,
but how about we at least start because sometimes there's
massive missed opportunities when we do renewal projects or
rehabilitations of roads but we're not
putting back better infrastructure,
we're kind of just replacing it
and spending all that money anyway.
So I think it, you know, there's a good place to start.
- [Ludo] Okay.
(bright dynamic jingle)
(birds chirping and calling)
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