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>>STEPHANIE Hi there, and welcome to another episode of Sound Stories - an inspirational
podcasts for creative professionals and storytellers who want to improve their lives at home, and
at work.
I'm Stephanie Ciccarelli, your host and co-founder of Voices.com.
Joining us today is Nicole Ledinich.
Today Nicole's going to share with us how we can make our space optimized, not only
for ourselves but for all of us, all the people on our team, with ideas for designing the
dream office space in a creative way for professionals.
So Nicole, whether you have an existing office space or looking to move into a space, it
can be overwhelming to sort out where to start with a design process.
So how do we begin?
>>NICOLE I think the first thing to do with designing great faces to get your team, and
to get the right people on the team early.
What we really like to do is foster an environment that's about co-creation.
So it's not about an expert coming in and telling you that these are the latest trends
in office spaces, and you should be in an open office that looks like Google because
that's really cool.
It's about getting people who want to understand you and your business who want to push the
edges with you, and to co-create with you what that space is going to be and that takes
some time and it takes having the right people around the table.
>>STEPHANIE No, absolutely.
So that all being said I know we've been through this process together.
>>NICOLE Yes.
>>STEPHANIE Just for everyone's sort of knowledge here, we've worked with Nicole at
Facility Resources and she helped us make an absolutely phenomenal office space.
If you've ever been to see it, then you know it's kind of Google-esque.
It's got all the great stuff in it that's meant for us, and it really fits us well.
So when I say that too, I want to ask you are there any special designing in office
for creatives.
>>NICOLE Definitely.
I think for creatives and for everyone what's really important is to start to understand
the behaviors that are taking place at work.
And so when we say words like creative, or when we say words like collaboration, it's
what is that specifically for whatever company we're working with.
So what was that for Voices.com, that could be very different than what that is for Facility
Resources, or what that is for Facebook, and so the question is is what is that creativity
that you're wanting to foster, or from a business perspective what is it that you're trying
to create as leaders in your company that you may not have right now that you want space
to support.
And that can look like all different types of spaces and things, and that may change
even departmentally.
>>STEPHANIE Wow okay.
So if I'm reading into this right and I know because I've been through the process but
for everyone else's benefit, does this kind of come from what the company's culture is?
>>NICOLE It does.
So we definitely start with "what is the purpose of the company".
So this is giving us a lens into what is unique about whatever company that we're working
with.
What is their purpose?
What are their business priorities that are going to drive business forward the most in
the next three years?
What is your character like and when we look at character what does that say about your
culture?
So it's that kind of prosperity model that we look at first to go to, and it gives us
a sense and a vibe for the people that were co-creating with.
>>STEPHANIE And one of the things that you can do, for those of you listening, that is
really an important part of our process was that sit down where we all got together and
it looked at the different modes of work and we can get into that in just a minute but
but just all the different ways that you work where you might work.
What you might do during the day?
You know and how often do you do this, and you need to be close to certain people in
your company more than others?
>>NICOLE Yeah what's really interesting is how do we have conversations and with design
what often happens is we ask people a bunch of questions and they do their best to answer
the questions but like everything that's garbage in, garbage out so we want to change the way
that programming looks like, and instead of asking a whole bunch of just technical questions
we're trying to get a pulse and a vibe for who you are and what you're trying to accomplish,
and what could the space be for the people who work there.
And that's just a very different programming process right from the beginning.
>>STEPHANIE But it really does matter though that everyone who has kind of a vested interest
in that space and its design is involved in the process of some degree.
Obviously you're going to have certain people who do more of certain kind of tasks but but
the dreaming the envisioning the vision boards even of like what do you want this to look
like and and how does that fit in with reality being like do you really need it's kind of
like over and above or does this really fit who you are what your brand is >>NICOLE Exactly.
The process that we engage clients with is from a Miller's process which is living office,
and what we're finding is companies like Voices.com who want to do that they want to engage their
staff in the design process.
And that often comes up with a lot of fear for leadership, how are we going to manage
all these the people's opinions?
Are we kind of opening that can of worms?
But we're asking people in a different way, and when leadership opens that up to the team
like Voices did, they get a lot more data, and they get people focusing on different
things.
So rather than the fears about what the solution is am I going to have a private office or
not, we're having discussion about behaviors, or what kind of creativity do we want to foster,
and we're getting that engagement which can really help with the change that the team
is ultimately going to go through.
>>STEPHANIE Yeah because sometimes it is actually moving into a new space all together.
It might not just be remodeling what you already have.
So I guess just thinking for people who are going to work with what they have.
>>NICOLE Yes.
>>STEPHANIE So they've got a great office space you know they got more than enough room
for all their people, they're just not feeling very energized, not very creative, they're
kind of like "oh, you know this bothers me".
"I don't get enough sunlight", or whatever.
Like what are ways that we can use that process to determine you know how do we make this
a better livable space, but also how do we make it more conducive to creativity?
>>NICOLE So the first thing that we're really trying to understand what the living office
process is, and you mentioned it earlier, is modes of work.
And that's how we map the behavior.
So rather than getting into the solutions and thinking about where things go in the
plan, it's what are the behaviors that we need to happen.
So when we say we collaborate, well are you collaborating... are you trying to foster
collaboration between two departments and we want to create that synergy.
Are you in an environment, or do some people need a think tank like environment?
We want to workshop with you know whiteboards all over the place, and places where people
can be super creative and sit in different postures?
Do we look at how people are moving through space and where does naturally happen through
collisions?
So we're trying to look at these behaviors that are specific to the company that we work
for when we have that data it becomes much easier to start to layer in that psychology
piece, as we map out the plan.
>>STEPHANIE So and I love what you just said, because you that made me think of a process
that we went through with you.
So part of that was mapping out just the physical location.
Like what do you have right now what still needs to this what is actually integral to
the design.
So I guess if you could maybe describe that process of when you did actually go around
and look at the different rooms, what were you looking for in those rooms and why?
>>NICOLE We're looking for what are people starting to naturally do so we always say
that you know... are you adapting to your space or is the space adapting to you.
And often times, we find that people are having to adapt to their space, but we can see when
we look in their rooms and what they're doing what the teams wanting.
So if all of a sudden you know they've tried to put up whiteboards everywhere, it sparks
our curiosity to be like what kind of collaboration is happening in this room.
Or we're looking at departments in your office, in particular in the sales area, I mean you
had the TV's going off in the songs when you know, they have a sale that's a very different
environment.
That's not how our sales department works.
It's really great to see that.
So how are people creating what is the creativity often like what are the creative solutions
that they've been applied in spaces.
We're really curious about like what's naturally emerging and bubbling up in that team.
>>STEPHANIE And for a company like ours we have you know Sales Team, IT, Marketing, Customer
Service, Finance, not every company has all of those different diverse groups of people
with very different tasks and objectives.
Like a sales floor it can be really loud, you would want it to be anyway right.
You want to be making some sales so.
But then you'll have people who are doing more independent, quiet work.
How does that fit in?
I know that we...
I kind of hinted at adjacencies and I'll let you talk about that in a bit, but it's like
well what kind of stuff do people do?
They get up, they sit down, they go to meetings, they come out of meetings, they cool down.
Maybe just describe what these modes are.
>>NICOLE Yeah there's all different to work that we don't necessarily think about.
So everybody is really familiar with what Herman Miller calls process and respond.
You're sitting at your desk you're doing your emails you're doing your phone calls and those
things.
We're all really familiar with what a meeting is, or a traditional meeting where the show-and-tell
experience where the focus is on the content being presented or the presenter.
And we're really familiar with what might be our focused work that we're doing, so our
create work which is when we're focused on a task specific to our role.
So it could be if an accounting team is working on a spreadsheet, and we value that being
uninterruptedly, but there is all these other behaviors that the global research is showing
exists today.
So things like chat's a really interesting question from a business perspective.
Where is chat a hindrance in your business, where could it might be disruptive, and where
is it a really great thing?
We have decades and decades of research in this world about the value of water cooler
discussions.
So chat is an important thing to put some attention on.
One of my favorite modes of work is contemplate, and why I love it is that contemplate is showing
in the world that we're starting to realize that people are not robots.
We are not machines and that now companies are wanting to again remember that we're designing
for human beings.
And so contemplate is... maybe in a call center, a staff member has just gotten off a really
difficult call and they just need a moment to compose themselves.
So these things exist today.
There could be Co-Create which is all about idea generation and in an era of ideas of
Herman Miller calls it, idea generation, especially for the creative workforce is so important,
and so important for every level of a business.
It's important for marketing, but it's also important for people like David and yourself
who are entrepreneurs, which is you know at an essence level and extremely creative field.
So these are some of the modes of work that we get into and what it's showing us is that
people are working together far differently than what they did 20 years ago, and that
means we have to look at space differently.
>>STEPHANIE And technology is saying so we work together too right.
So you have these different modes, but now you don't have to be beside someone to tell
them something.
>>NICOLE Exactly.
Technology is actually one of the key things that has allowed us to start thinking about
space differently, so not only do you not have to be beside them to necessarily communicate,
or to create something, but the other thing is is that it allows us to move and so when
we talk about behaviors what come up is gone are the days where our desk or our private
office can suit all things.
We tend to struggle with things like uninterrupted time so what the evolving technology has allowed,
is for us to explore easier ways for people to move and move to other settings that allow
people to do their work.
And so if your behavior isn't being supported at your desk which is going to happen, then
you move to a place that it supports.
And that speaks to your earlier question about well what about when there's different departments?
And different departments need to move differently.
So maybe somebody who's in a creative area wants to be in a really buzzy open space but
sometimes needs that concentrate have work and so they move for that and maybe somebody
else really needs those private offices but they want to come out for times of collaboration.
So we're looking at that in all different departments and ultimately what we're saying
is one company is not the same as another company, and when department is not the same
as another, and we need to start designing for what's unique to each.
>>STEPHANIE Yeah well just thinking again to our own experience, but we've recently
moved into an incredible space.
We've got lots of room far more room than we ever could have dreamt we never have but
we're going to put it to good use it you know it's there to help us to grow so we had to
get a reception area for instance and had to understand what the dynamics were of when
someone comes in from outside.
Where do they go, where they sit, do they feel comfortable being in here?
You know, is there a spot where people can kind of perch you know for a little bit.
They don't have to sit down you know they could just be waiting for someone.
There's all different kinds behaviors for visitors to let alone those who are actually
working your office day to day.
>>NICOLE Definitely and I really like what you're touching about is you know how do people
come in and they're comfortable, and that's actually the big question about space.
Whether it's a visitor coming in, or your own staff.
We can do things in design that can be quite contrived.
We used to do it all the time, "oh my gosh I have this amazing floor plate.
There's this awkward little nook.
I'll put a lounge area.
That used to be really exciting and myself and many of the designers that I've worked
with would wouldn't understand why it wouldn't be used, and now with living office, I understand,
because it's the psychology of human beings that makes up space you know intuitive and
easy and natural to be in.
So it's that idea of you know a three-seater sofa in the waiting room no one sits in the
middle.
There's a major psychology of how human beings naturally act, and behave in space, and we
need to start layering that in early and the design process and understanding that component.
>>STEPHANIE I guess there are some universal to certain human behaviors but then we have
different personality types and how they might work in a certain space, and that was a consideration
to for us when we were looking at you know spaces for contemplation.
That obviously is more of an introverted reflective sort of activity and you may be able to do
at your desk or maybe not so there's different places where people can just sit and think
and and literally just not you know be in front of a device.
Maybe you don't have a screen or whatever like it's just you let your mind just sit
there process, something perhaps right.
Or maybe just a place to be quiet a place to have a phone call where you're not disrupted
even.
>>NICOLE Yeah there's lots of really interesting things that happen and again, even just having
business leaders acknowledge that there's a difference between you know introverts,
or extrovert, or we can even talk about highly sensitive in space.
People need different things and when we can support people in space they can do their
best possible work.
So another example of that is after a meeting room is... or after a meeting, people will
come out and an introvert may you know want to pull someone aside and bring something
up that they didn't bring up in a meeting.
Well how does that get supported?
Or how do those kind of huddle's that we seem to always see after meeting get supported?
So these things that just happen whether we support them or not.
>>STEPHANIE And that would be like the cool down right like…
>>NICOLE Exactly.
>>STEPHANIE In terms of Herman Miller terminology, it's like you know you can warm up before
a meeting and you're getting like a little "oh boy we're going to go in" be waiting
you know there needs be an area, for if someone else is already in that room then where you
gonna be you know you want to be on time but you don't want to be you know obnoxious and
like walking in on their meeting.
So you have somewhere that you can wait and warm up for that meeting potentially, or review
your notes before the meeting and you know it doesn't even have to be a nice social grace,
you're just sitting there do whatever you're doing.
But then of course there's the the kind of winding down the cooling down.
There's going to be people who want to talk to each other regardless of what you know
the reason is afterwards, because they just they need to continue that conversation.
>>NICOLE Exactly and what's really interesting is when it's not well supported, people will
tend to dissipate more quickly, and you don't know the creativity that could have been lost
by not fostering an environment that supports that conversation to happen.
So it can be something as simple as a standing height table with maybe some stool that allows
people to naturally feel like this is where I perch.
I can sit here.
this is okay.
And so the idea is is how do you foster as much creativity in the group.
We're not going to consciously think "oh okay let's go seek out a space across the
building", it's not how we behave as human beings, so that's what we're trying to support.
>>STEPHANIE Yeah.
Oh boy, it's a lot of fun.
I mean I've seen both sides as someone who has worked in an environment but also someone
who's been able to observe how the environment is designed and just the different factors
that you take into account.
So you have introversion, extroversion, highly sensitive persons, a lot of really interesting
thought workfare psychology wise.
And certainly for some kinds of I guess personality types or you would need to have very different
environments that they feel comfortable in to do their best work, and for them you know
it might be having an area where they can collaborate but in a very small group, maybe
it's a smaller meeting room versus everything always feeling so big and exposed.
>>NICOLE Exactly.
And I was well different departments mean things so we know we spent a lot of time with
Voices like looking at marketing for example, because that department has a very different
function, and so it's like well what do you need to kind of like foster that creativity
and spark that.
And what things need to be seen and enclosed adjacency so one are people out there desks
versus when do they pop over to you know maybe a workshop that has white boards and things
on the wall.
Or when do they filter into your Plaza, which is a lunchroom with so much more functionality
built in.
So what are all these things that happen?
How do people move through space.
What's happening there and is every department supported in what they need?
Where else your sales department those people they don't need to move so much from their
desks, they work much more at their desks and they're going to more social spaces for
that collaboration, because of their role so everybody's different.
>>STEPHANIE What would be the one thing you would tell somebody about how they could be
creative right now in their space?
>>NICOLE I think that change of posture is something that's really really important to
think about.
And so that can be something as easy as switching up one of your meeting rooms.
Maybe it doesn't need to be a boardroom table maybe it's sofas, maybe it's beanbag chairs
with white boards, but changing that idea that we have to do business in one way which
is sitting at our desks or sitting around a boardroom table, change of postures huge.
A really simple change, and a really great experiment can even help a business owner
start to see and get some feedback as to what might be happening.
So maybe it's little test project before a bigger investments made, but see what's working
for your team, get their feedback experiment a little, play a little, that's what this
is really about so that we can start to kind of push our edges and realize that work can
happen in many many ways.
>>STEPHANIE We have so many great ideas about what to do right.
Maybe someone's in a really dysfunctional space right now but they don't know, like
how can they tell that their space really isn't working it's not the people, it's not
that they aren't doing their jobs right, but everything just feels a little bit bleh.
Like how can they know if their space is actually creating these problems that they might be
having in their organization.
>>NICOLE I think it's a real sensing, and I think that that's the challenging thing
would design is there's no real checklist, but I think certain owners get this feeling
of like there's more.
Like I feel like I have a creative team and I don't see them working together.
Oftentimes what you'll see when space isn't working as a team will start to shut down
a little bit.
They'll start to work more siloed because they're frustrated, oftentimes because they
can't get the concentrative time that they need and they don't come together and collaborate.
So you'll tend to see that siloed effect, and even thinking about how your meetings
are so when you gather the team together for a meeting like is it... are you getting the
vibe are you getting the experience that you're wanting in that meeting or is it flat.
All these kind of human behaviors when there's not excitement or creativity to me or kind
of red flags that there might be something bigger going on, whether it's culturally,
or whether it's space, or a combination of both.>>STEPHANIE Or lighting even right?
>>NICOLE Exactly.
>>STEPHANIE That can affect things.
Maybe you're in a room that is not really well-lit but it's the only space you have
you know that's got windows.
But it for whatever reason it's just like I don't know the pot lights are burnt out
or you know... maybe there are little things you can do to fix it right away, but it literally
could be something to do with just something very easy to fix.
>>NICOLE Yeah oftentimes it's in a meeting room, we really value to whiteboard but the
way the table on the chairs are doesn't make the whiteboard easy to access, or technologies
hard.
We find that often when people have you know smart boards and things like that Herman Miller
actually has research on how long it takes the average person to set up for a meeting
room, all these things start to hinder people, and they tend not to go two spaces that don't
work with them, and they don't even know how to name why until somebody starts asking the
questions.
>>STEPHANIE Right.
>>NICOLE If you're seeing that you can start to think [noise of thought], what about technology,
what about lighting, what is the furniture what is the circulation?
You can kind of start to fill out these things and maybe make some small shifts.
>>STEPHANIE Yeah because if the chairs are 10 years old maybe, like I mean someone might
not feel terribly creative sitting in a chair that's got like I don't know a tear in it
or something like, it could be cosmetic... could be a big kind of factor in how someone
might feel about their work, but it's also sort of just you know you want people to feel
comfortable you want them to encounter as few number of obstacles as possible to achieving
their goals.
>>NICOLE Exactly and maybe it's a creative room and what people really need to be doing
is sitting on a couch or standing at standing table we sit so often, so maybe we need to
be up and energized, and you know white boarding and creating an idea generating, and things
like that, so posture is a really big thing again that's easy to identify and play around
with.
>>STEPHANIE Something that we have and others do probably are tons of whiteboards as you
mentioned.
Like everyone loves the whiteboard, anyone's creative when you can write on a whiteboard
right, and I do believe that everyone can be creative, so if you for some reason believe
that you are not creative here you are.
It's merely just connecting things I think Steve Jobs had said that before all it is
just, you know, "well I saw that, and I see this, and I put them together, and this
is what I got".
Like I've got some connection right.
Anyone can be creative so that said you know how many people do you know of in the work
you've done make use of having say even those painted walls, where you can write on those
like it like almost like chalkboard paint.
>>NICOLE I would say that it's definitely evolving more.
What I think happens is the differences if people are mindful of the change that they're
making, and they're making it purposely not because they thought it was cool, but that
they're really thinking this would work well for our team and how the space is being used,
so I always think it's kind of like the why of it is always really really important.
And some of those tools that we're seeing like the whiteboard paints that are out there,
or standing height tables and some of these solutions that for example companies like
Herman Miller do global research to develop, you know, are fostering these behaviors but
it says bigger you know bigger question of what is it that you're wanting and why.
I think that's the place to start.
>>STEPHANIE Well that's it for this week thank you for joining us on Sound Stories.
If you'd like to subscribe its own stories there are two really easy way.
You can either go to iTunes, you'll get every episode as soon as it's ready or you can go
to our website: Voices.com /podcast/soundstories.
Whatever you choose to do just know that I'm so happy you're there.
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