- Good evening, and welcome to Vanguard:
Conversations with Women of Color in STEM,
or #VanguardSTEM, for short.
I'm your host, Dr. Jedidah Isler, and I am so excited.
I know because you see me once a month
and I'm excited every month,
that it seems like I'm always excited,
and part of that is true, but also,
I'm excited in a different way every month,
and so, I'm excited about talking about mental health
and how we are minding our mental health,
but let me tell you a little bit about myself
just in case you haven't met me yet.
I am an astrophysicist by training,
and the founder of #VanguardSTEM,
the show that you are currently watching.
In my astrophysical day job, I'm interested
in understanding supermassive hyperactive black holes
called blazars, and just today,
I was trying to puzzle through how I could use polarization
to better understand relativistic jets,
so I do in fact do my own work.
It's really kind of awesome.
So, that's my day job.
Really, really happy, though,
being in my second day job,
which is founder and host of this show.
It is a labor of love by not just me,
but a whole team of people who are invested
in centering and highlighting the stories,
and experiences, and expertise of women of color in STEM,
so welcome to the lair.
We've begun calling ourself the #VSVillage,
so welcome to the village.
We know it takes a village to raise a PhD,
to raise a bachelor's degree,
to raise a master's, to raise a dean,
to raise any kind of thing we're doing in life,
we're doing it together with support,
so we're really excited to have you in the group.
We are committed to building a movement
of women of color in STEM that's advocating for each other
and for ourselves.
So if you wanna help with building that movement,
send us an email at hello@vanguardstem.com
We'll get you plugged right in.
So, before getting too far into the show,
I wanna make sure that if anyone's having
any technical difficulties hearing,
if you can't hear us, or I guess, me, right now,
and I can't hear you, which I wouldn't know for sure,
but you would know that, then just try it again.
Log out, restart your browser,
and come back into the chatroom,
into the show the same way you did before.
That should clarify any issues we have with sound.
So if you can't hear, just try the whole thing over.
Next, and also let our team know.
We've got folks in the room, we've got folks live-tweeting,
and all those things, so if you can't make it happen,
ping us, we'll help you get that straight.
So, how can you engage with #VanguardSTEM?
There are many, many, many ways,
specifically for the show tonight,
there are two main portals that you can do that.
You can either do it in the world,
in the big, wide world of life,
or I guess, big, wide world of social media.
Our main avenue is on Twitter.
You can live-tweet us @VanguardSTEM.
The hashtags for tonight are #VSMindMatters,
so the same thing you RSVP'd for,
and also, as always, our #VanguardSTEM.
You can use either or both of those.
Those things will be seen by our team.
The questions you send that way will be elevated
so that we can answer them, and any comments you have,
we'll see those, so please do use the #VSMindMatters,
or #VSVanguardSTEM to engage with us
and get your questions seen or heard,
and definitely be thinking about your questions.
You can also interact with us inside our platform,
thanks to the lovely people at Shindig.
That's where you're sitting right now.
That's where our lair is.
That's where the village meets up,
and we're glad to have you.
You can interact with us radically inside this platform,
so the first thing you can do is raise your hand.
That's the little hand button down at the bottom
of your screen.
That allows you to ask a question
in the text space, way that everyone would see.
The other thing you can do is ask a question.
That's the other button, and then that way,
we'll get to pop up on the screen
and ask a question in video with us on stage.
So if you're feeling like you wanna be up on stage
and actually have a conversation with us,
please do feel free to use that button.
You should know that the show is being recorded,
and it will be distributed very widely
and very publicly to the world,
so if that makes you uncomfortable,
you can either turn your camera off,
or you can log off and we'd hate to see you go,
'cause the show is you.
It's made up of us, so please stay,
but just so you know, the show is going to be recorded.
So we expect a bunch of questions from you,
so please start thinking about those,
or talking about minding our mental health.
So where did that come from?
Well, every season, we like to have at least one show
that's super practical.
Something that you can activate,
that you can go and do that will make your experience better
no matter where you are on your journey.
Whether that's starting college,
in college, graduate school, after graduate school,
professional life, any place in your journey,
we wanna bring you practical tips
to help you do that better.
This month, May, is Mental Health Awareness Month,
and so we figured we'd take a moment out
to talk about how you can mind your mental health,
because as you've seen in some of our social media,
no matter where you are on your STEM journey,
that matters.
Your mental health matters, and we also recognize
that being a woman of color in STEM
means that there are different experiences you have
that impacts your ability
to maintain good mental health practices,
depending on where you sit in your intersectional
and/or unfortunately, marginalized identity.
So we can't wait to dig into these topics
to talk to two women of color,
mental health STEM practitioners.
I was fangirling on them before the show started
because I'm so excited that they're here.
They both have such a breadth and width of knowledge
that is going to really, I think,
change the way we think about mental health,
so my hope is that you leave with some actionable items
that you can do to help care for yourself
and your mental health.
So, let me, without further ado, introduce our panelists.
Our first panelist is Dr. Ama Arthur Rowe.
Dr. Rowe is a proud graduate of Spelman College,
with a BA in Psychology, and Meharry Medical College,
with her Doctor of Medicine.
She was Chief Resident of Psychiatry
at Virginia Commonwealth University Medical Center,
and remained to complete her fellowship
in Psychosomatic Medicine.
Dr. Rowe is a local.
We're actually sitting in the same city. (chuckles)
Local who joined the faculty
of Vanderbilt University Medical Center in 2011
as an Assistant Professor of Clinical Psychiatry,
holding positions with the Adult Psychiatry
Consultation Service, the Osher Center
for Integrative Medicine, and the Student Psychological
and Counseling Center.
We're really glad to hear that.
She currently serves as the Medical Director
of Complex Behavioral Services,
where she provides biopsychosocial assessments.
I practiced that word several times.
Develops and revises behavioral
and comprehensive care plans,
and strengthens communications between patients, families,
and medical teams, while also studying its impact
on healthcare systems and sharing emerging knowledge
with medical trainees.
It is an honor to have you, thank you for joining us,
Dr. Rowe.
- Honored to be here, thank you.
- Second in our passel of awesome
is Dr. Silvia Mazzula.
She's a Counseling Psychologist with extensive research,
clinical and consulting experience
on issues of diversity, equity, and inclusion,
and mental health, with a strong interest
in Latinx population across the lifespan.
With epidemiological data, another word I practiced,
she examined cultural factors
that reduced the negative impact
of maternal criminal justice involvement
among African American and Latina women,
mental health service by Spanish-dominant Latinx youth,
with substance abuse or dependence
and cultural and environmental factors
that impact mental health outcomes
of racial minority children exposed to mass trauma.
Based on community and college student samples,
she has studied the impact of racism,
discrimination, and other social justice issues,
including racial profiling.
On psychological outcomes of racial ethnic minorities,
and the role the cultural ethnic group membership,
and cultural values play in shaping racial,
ethnic minority worldviews.
Do y'all hear me when I say, we have the best ever.
Please welcome to the stage, Dr. Mazzula.
Hi, welcome to the show, Dr. Mazzula.
Uh-oh, I can't hear you.
I cannot hear you.
So let's just try that again, give you a second to recenter.
In the meantime, what I'm gonna do
is I'm gonna introduce our topic.
We'll make sure we get your sound working just right,
all right?
Okay, so I'm gonna let Lana handle that.
So as you heard me say, one of the main reasons
we wanted to have this show with you two
in particular, is because mental health matters
in our experiences as women of color in STEM,
informs the balance between taking care of oneself,
what's necessary to take care of oneself, and the like.
So the question is why talk about mental health?
So just two pieces of data and Ama,
I'm gonna throw to you first
to give us some insight on this.
According to a recent Teen Vogue,
shout-out to Teen Vogue for the work they've been doing,
real journalism, real talk.
They did an article, Brittney McNamara,
in the article that said the World Health Organization
reports that between 2005 and 2015,
the number of people living with depression
increased 18%, jumping to 300 million people globally,
making it the biggest cause of illness and disability
across the globe.
Does that sound like something you'd run into in your work?
- Absolutely, so, what I do with psychosomatic medicine
is I look at the intersection between medical illness
and psychiatric illness, and oftentimes,
people like to separate the two,
like they're two separate things,
but when you're not feeling well, you're unwell.
It doesn't matter if it's a toe that's hurting,
your heart that's literally hurting,
or if it's figuratively hurting.
It's causing you a level of pain
that is impairing your ability to function.
And so I think people are realizing now
how depression, in particular,
can impact your ability to care
for chronic medical conditions,
so diabetes, hypertension, hypolipidemia,
so if you have high cholesterol,
it makes it more difficult for you
to have the get up and go to want to treat your asthma,
to want to take that lap around the block,
to help your weight and your energy,
when you're feeling down from depression,
and any other way as well.
When you are dealing with so many things
in your day to day life, and then you add to that,
a chronic medical condition, then it can make you feel
as if you have the weight of the world on your shoulder,
and so it can cause significant impairment,
it can cause significant disabilities,
an inability for you to go to work
and to live the life in many ways
that you want to live, and since people don't realize that,
or don't feel as comfortable talking about their mood
or their anxiety as they would speaking about a cough
that they can't get rid of, or a pain in their leg
that they're having, it goes untreated,
it goes unnoticed, and it becomes more and more disabling,
and it has more and more of an impairment.
- I am so glad you backed up and talked to us
about this, the connection between somatic
and psychological because that is definitely something
that's the case.
And so, we'll definitely want to hear more about that
from you.
Let me just also add in this extra piece of information
then I would love to hear about your thoughts, Silvia.
So in an article in Science by Elisabeth Pain
earlier this month, specifically,
zooming into student, PhD students and graduate students,
they said that in a recent study,
they found that a third of PhD students
were at risk for developing psychiatric disorders
like depression.
What they said was the most commonly reported symptoms,
going back to what you were saying, Ama,
included feeling under constant strain,
being unhappy and depressed, losing sleep
because of worry, not being able to overcome difficult,
doesn't enjoy day to day activity,
and that the greatest predictor
for experiencing mental health challenges
was having difficulty taking care of family needs
due to conflicting work commitments, right?
And that high job demands and low job control
also contributed to these symptoms,
so, Silvia, you were talking about,
talking about ethnic, racial, sort of experiences
with trauma, how does this play with the work you do?
Uh-oh.
I cannot.
Why don't we have, no, I see
where you've got your mute button on,
so why don't we have you take your headphones off
and see if we can just hear you natively?
No.
We can't, I'm gonna pull you down
and I'm gonna have them work on your tech
for just a second, and I'm gonna ask Ama,
because I saw her nodding her head,
to give me a few notes.
So what are you thinking about that, Ama?
- I think that women, in particular,
have a role or a responsibility,
or feel that they have a role or responsibility
to care for others.
So they may be caring up and caring for parents,
grandparents, aunts, uncles who raised them,
that they feel responsibility for caring for.
They may have to care down for children,
nieces and nephews, others that depend on them,
now that they are the one who may have,
quote-unquote, made it.
They're also caring laterally for their partners
and those that they're in a relationship with,
or hope to be in a relationship with,
and so it could become very easy
to put everyone else's needs before your own,
and even when you plug in then work
in that level of responsibility,
you may be dealing with things
that others around you are not,
and you're finding a way to kinda juggle
and keep all of those balls up in the air,
and at times, it is a very unrealistic expectation
that is being placed on you, and/or we're placing
on ourselves, and so when you start to lose
that pleasure in life, that is one of the signs
and symptoms of depression.
You mentioned sleep, so one of the things
that we kind of look into,
we wanna know about sleep changes.
We wanna know about your interest levels,
so if beforehand, you used to love to run home
and watch your reality TV, and now you don't care
what's happening with any of that,
that could be a flag that something is changing.
If you're feeling more down or guilty,
well, gosh, I haven't read as many pages
as I should've read today or I haven't written
as many as I have, as if I should have,
then you're again, you're putting additional weight
and burden on yourself.
Your energy level can be affected.
Your concentration can also go down,
so it's harder for you to even pay attention
at work or at school.
You could also feel as if you're not moving as fast
as you used to, and just overall,
feeling down, sluggish, and not like your normal
or usual self, and so when that is happening,
it can be hard to recognize, and if you do recognize,
it can also be hard to sort of reach out
at that time as well.
- Yeah, there are so many things you said there
that are worth responding to.
I, in particular, am super interested
in the different directions of care, right?
You said down, lateral, and ahead of you,
and how many of us have those kinds of constraints
on ourselves and are responsible for managing them,
which is why I thought it was so interesting
and why I brought up the point that they mention,
that the feeling of lack of control,
lack of ability to deal with those things,
is a major factor, right?
And it reminds me a lot of feeling
like we can't explain very clearly
to our down, lateral, and ahead of us,
sort of, just even what we're doing,
so that one, for me, was really interesting,
so let me just ask you because you said
that there was basically a decline
that one might feel as they're feeling
all these anxieties and pressures,
how do you know when it's a good time
to potentially seek mental health service?
- And so, people usually focus on the extreme periods,
so if you're ever at the point
to where you're not sure if life is worth living,
if you feel as if it would be better,
hey, if I went to sleep and didn't wake up,
I would be okay with that, or if your thoughts
about self-harm have gone beyond that,
then you definitely want to seek urgent or emergent care.
But then, it's catching it at the beginning part
of it as well.
I recommend mental health care for everyone.
The same way that you go and you kinda make sure
or find out what your numbers are,
how's your blood pressure, how's your weight,
how's this, how's that.
Find out how your mental health is at that time as well.
Sort of talk to your provider about how your sleep,
about what you're interested in.
Get feedback from close family or friends
who could also sort of notice if there are things
that are changing, but just internally,
if you know that you are preparing for a difficult semester,
if there's a big project that's coming up,
if you have board exams or other exams
that you know are on the horizon, it can just be a good time
to kind of establish a relationship
with a mental health provider,
so you all get to know one another,
so if there is a big change in the horizon,
you're going through that change with someone
who knows you and knows you well.
And so, I feel as if it's, every day is a great time,
and that everyone should have someone
that they can turn to.
Family and friends can be great,
but there's something about having a neutral person,
and there's something about having a professional
on your side and in your corner,
who may understand things in a different way
than family and friends.
- That is so good, so good.
So, reaching back to your point
about talking, using, thinking about mental health services
just like you think of any other preventative maintenance
or maintenance care, that is key
and definitely something that is important
because what I run into, and what I've run into
with colleagues and contemporaries of mine
is that if you wait until you're at,
maybe not an extreme, like emergent situation
like you were talking about,
but one in which you are clearly under duress,
then it seems like such a weight
to then try to reach out and find someone,
to figure out if this person's a good fit,
to do all the evaluative stuff
that is necessary, but you don't really have the energy
to do because you're going through a condition,
so hearing you talk about finding that early and often,
I think is a really important factor
for making sure that you have the right support
that you need, sort of through the whole progression.
- Absolutely, at times, we recommend,
if you're starting at a new institution,
just go to their psychological or counseling center,
or student mental health center,
and find out what they offer.
If you're moving to a new city,
that can be one of the things that you're looking for.
A new primary care provider.
Hey, who do you think would be a good fit
for me in this area as well?
Just so you have an idea or have a list of names,
or it could kind of do a one-on-one session with them.
It can sometimes take away that monster
at the end of the book kind of a thing,
to where you're so afraid of being open and honest
about having difficulties in this one area,
but it's one of the things, if you can get ahead of it,
and try to face it directly, on the back end,
it can be such a rewarding experience.
- Yeah, absolutely.
I wanna make sure we circle back to this point
about how to make it a part of the suite of services
that we do to take care of ourselves,
'cause it is a one that we're least likely to acknowledge.
You come to school with a cold,
it's easy to see you have a cold,
and it's easy to see, first of all, stand back, (chuckles)
also to go home, but it's hard to do that
when you're talking about mental health services,
so I think we've got all our sound issues taken care of
with Silvia, so I wanted to go back
and ask you, Silvia, what you were thinking.
First of all, welcome.
Yes, you sound lovely. (laughs)
So I wanted to sort of bring you,
jump right into the conversation.
So I know you've been hearing all along.
Are there things that are emerging that you wanted to jump into?
Absolutely, absolutely, and did you have any comment?
It really resonated with me,
this study, there's...
It's where they talked about fully third
of PhD students are experiencing symptoms,
psychiatric symptoms like depression,
and there was another piece there that they mentioned.
Let me just go back and find it,
that something like twice the recurrent, the occurrence,
in just other highly educated functional groups.
Does that sound like something y'all have heard before?
Do you have any ideas about why that might be?
Absolutely, absolutely, so now that I've got you both here,
let me just back out, zoom out just a little bit,
and ask you both about how you got interested
in behavioral psychology and in psychiatry,
and in psychosomatic symptoms, and in counseling psychology.
Tell us about your origin stories.
We wanna hear how y'all got here.
- I, sure, I will go first.
So my origin story, when I was younger,
I don't know if you all remember this show,
Growing Pains, but on that show,
Alan Thicke was a psychiatrist.
He had a office in his house, and his kids,
and they were there, and I just thought
what he did on that show was wonderful,
and so when I found out what it was called,
back when I was growing up, we had a thing
called the yellow pages, so I went to the yellow pages,
I looked up psychiatrist, picked up the phone
and called one.
- Back when you were growing up, though?
Back when you were growing up?
Okay then.
- When I was growing up, when I was growing up,
we had that, and so, when I did,
I called, I believe the nurse picked up the phone,
and I said, "I wanna be a psychiatrist.
"Can you tell me what I need to do to be a psychiatrist?"
And so, I was about nine or 10 at the time.
They put me on hold, and then they came back,
and said, the doctor said,
"You need to go to medical school,"
and so I said, "All right, thank you, great."
And so from then on, that's what I was set here to do.
I have, now that I look back, I cannot believe
that that has actually led me to the point
that I am right now, but it was the ability, I think,
to see that there are people who are hurting
in a myriad of ways, and wanting to find a way
to alleviate that pain and alleviate that hurt,
and so I think that's why, for me, it resonated.
And then going through an deciding on
consult liaison psychiatry or psychosomatic medicine,
in particular, I knew I had a general interest.
Unfortunately, when I was starting my training
is when they had the Virginia Tech shooting at that time,
and then I really kind of reiterated to me the importance
of college mental health.
When I was in college, I had, I knew people
who were struggling as well.
I was a peer counselor, and so it just sort of reignited
that passion for me,
and so when I was at Virginia Commonwealth,
and I worked at University of Richmond
and here at Vanderbilt for a time,
just really wanting to work with this population
because I see the vulnerability,
I see the isolation, I see the,
it's not bootstrap that people are pulling themselves up.
It's like 20, and they're doing so many things,
and the professors who may be very well-intentioned,
don't understand and don't get it.
Other people around may not understand,
and I see that flicker and that light in their eyes,
and I wanna make sure that it continues to burn.
So that's sort of what my passion was
towards psychiatry and then college mental health,
and then psychosomatic medicine, again,
people like to separate the two.
I just kind of put it all with total wellness.
- And Silvia?
I cannot hear you, but I think, maybe our audience can.
Can you all give me some quick feedback?
Nods if you can hear Silvia.
I'm not getting nods, so...
All right, so I'm gonna let them,
I'm not sure what's happening.
We're gonna let them fix your sound.
We'll be right back with you.
Okay, so, Ama, let me ask you this question.
How, so this one has already come up in our hashtags.
How do you find a mental health practitioner?
- Okay, there are a few good ways.
One, which I think is an excellent way
and unfortunately, for many reasons, it's underutilized.
It's on personal recommendation,
but the problem with that is, it has to be sort of twofold.
Someone has to recognize
that they're seeing a mental health professional,
that someone has to disclose
that they're seeing a mental health professional.
If that, if the stars align and that happens,
then getting a referral from someone
could be an excellent place to begin.
Knowing that finances and copays and those things
are very important as well.
Even just calling your insurance company
and finding out from them who may be in network,
is a wonderful place to begin as well,
so you can just pick up the phone and say,
"Hey, I'm just trying to find someone in mental health.
"Someone who can either prescribe medications
"or can talk with me, or do both,
"or I don't know which one I need.
"I just need to kind of get my foot in the door."
That's a great place.
If you have a trusted medical provider that you see.
If you have a pediatrician that you know growing up,
if you have a primary care provider
that you have a good relationship with as well,
they more than likely, again, have a list of patients
who have also been out,
and seeking a mental health professional,
and they get that feedback, and so,
they can know you, know who may be a good fit,
and then put in that recommendation towards you.
There are additional websites, Psychology Today,
for example, is a website that has a list
of different mental health providers.
You can put in the address, what you're looking for
in a provider, gender, all of those things,
and then they kind of populate to you,
a list that you can reach out and kind of find out
if that person is a good fit.
The other option, like BlackDoctor.org.
You could also look there
and see if there's a mental health provider
that may be someone that you wanna connect with,
but don't feel as if you can't just pick the phone,
and call and sort of ask questions of them as well.
It's a relationship that you want it to be an open
and honest relationship for you,
so if there's a barrier that you think
that will be in place that may keep you
from having that open and honest conversation with them,
it's okay to say, "I'm looking for a provider
"that has these three things, and if you're not a provider
"with it, that's fine, I'll look for someone who is."
Oh, and if you're a student, again,
going to your student mental health facility.
Oftentimes, teaching hospitals as well
may have clinics to where they're able to provide services
at lower rates, or neighborhood clinics as well.
- Thank you for that, 'cause that was one of the questions
that I had, right?
That in many institutions across the country,
there are just not enough mental health providers
that have diverse, I am not using it that way.
Enough mental health providers that aren't white men
or white women, right?
And so, coming into this space,
and knowing you have an intersectional identity.
For me, it's being black and a woman.
I want someone who can understand that,
for whom I don't have to explain
what microaggressions are, or the like,
so thank you for talking about ways
to find specific practitioners
who have, who sort of can see and understand your identity
without it being explained.
We'll make sure to share all of the resources
that you've just shared with us,
so that we know, and it's also good to know
that you can just ask about identity
in terms of the kind of practitioners you want.
- Yes, I feel as if a good practitioner
will understand the reason why you are asking.
So, it shouldn't be to where you are having to mute yourself
and change yourself around in order to receive good care.
That's against, at this point, you're not (mumbles)
so it's one of those times and places
you can go and walk boldly, say,
"This is what I'm looking for.
"This is what I need," and find out
what they can and cannot provide.
- Listen, I'm just gonna say what you said again,
'cause I thought it was fire.
A good practitioner will know why you're asking.
There is such a level of empowerment and clarity,
and ownership over one's care that that requires,
and so, thank you for saying it.
- Yeah, yeah. - It's a thing.
- [Ama] It's a thing.
If they take offense with that,
then you know that's not a good fit.
And it's okay to look for a good fit.
- That's, it is okay to look for a good fit,
which is something worth mentioning, right?
That having, that it's not guaranteed
that the first person you find
is going to be your practitioner,
but that doesn't mean you shouldn't keep looking.
- Absolutely, it is a professional relationship
that you're looking for, but again,
it's a relationship, so the same way
that if you've gone on one date,
and you said, "Oh god, that was a terrible date.
"I'm never gonna go on a date again."
No, you're gonna say
that that wasn't the right person for me.
There's likely someone out there
that is a better option.
And so you wanna take that approach as well.
You don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
You don't want, even though there are some experiences
out there that can make you say,
"I don't know if this is for me,"
there is also someone out there
who I believe will be a great fit,
and there are different options and different types
of therapy, and different types of mental health services
that you can receive as well, so,
it's not just like Frasier laying on a couch.
That's not the only type.
If that's what you're looking for, great,
but if you want something that's more so,
a group therapy, where there are other people
who may be women of color, or may be graduate students,
or may be young professionals,
you can find those groups, of a shared identity in some way,
and then you could work off of that,
or if you are dealing with particular diagnosis,
depression, anxiety, other mood disorders,
you can be in a group with others
who share that diagnosis, and who could understand you
on a very different level as well.
And so, individual therapy, couples therapy,
family therapy can also be helpful
when people don't understand.
"Gosh, well, only thing you're doing is going to school.
"Why is that so stressful?"
And you as the graduate student are like,
(screams) "This is the most stressful thing
"I've ever been under!"
Sometimes having someone in there
that can sit down and kind of help family, friends,
and others understand kind of what you're going through,
so they, at times, those people want to be supportive,
they just don't know how, and so having a neutral person
coming and say, "Hey, this is what they're experiencing,
"and this is how you can be a support to them,"
has also been beneficial.
- Yeah, yeah, that's really good.
That's really good 'cause that,
you ain't never said but a word with that,
"You're just a student, why is it so hard?"
That is a word, listen. (Ama laughs)
So the strong side-eye, like, for?
- Yeah, yeah.
- For real. - Yeah.
- [Jedidah] And I like the idea
that there are different kinds of counseling,
'cause what I was gonna ask,
some people do like virtual counseling, right?
So where you can get on like a call like this,
and instead of having you show and you do a personal thing,
so there are just different flavors of counseling
that you can do all along.
- All, there are different types, different flavors,
different ways, and in addition,
if you're sort of viewing it as a total wellness approach,
then for you, you might have acupuncture
as part of your approach.
You may have yoga as part of your approach.
You might have a prayer circle as part of your approach.
There are ways that you can supplement your mental health,
your mental care, so it doesn't just have to include
more formal or standardized treatment.
If going to (laughs) a particular concert
gets your juices flowing to make it through the weeks
and months and finals ahead, then you might need
to get you tickets and go.
And so, it's that insight and awareness at times
that you can gain from therapy, for example,
or from mental health treatment,
that will let you see that you are worth caring for,
and at times, putting first.
I know that's hard for people to accept,
especially women at times, but it's okay
to put yourself first.
- So much good stuff.
I just wanna quote everything you say.
I have no new thoughts.
I just wanna quote everything you say
'cause on this show, the whole point of #VanguardSTEM
is to create a movement of women of color in STEM
who are empowered to advocate for ourselves,
and that empowerment happens by being whole
and healthy in a holistic way,
and so we've talked before about self-care
in terms of finding gifts and treats
for yourself to help balance what you do,
but what I love about what you just said
is that those things are ascribable
to good mental health care.
- Absolutely.
- Right, and that while going and seeing a practitioner
is often a part of the equation,
that there is a full spectrum of care
that one can give oneself, and that was one of questions
that I had, so what are things you can do
to foster good mental health, and I have to admit
that I hadn't even thought about the times
where I go, so for me, it's floating.
If ya'll haven't tried the deprivation chambers
You gotta try it.
For me, it's floating. (Ama laughing)
Have you ever heard of it?
- (laughing) What, tell me more!
- So, my life is, can be characterized
by the term, overstimulated.
Just like, overstimulated.
I'm a move so y'all can see me better.
Sorry, so unprofessional but I'm gonna do it anyway.
Okay, so my life is overstimulated,
and so often, I just need a quiet moment,
and so I found this isolation chamber,
where you get into a tank.
It's full of saltwater, it's not enough to drown you,
and it's too much salt for you to sink,
and you shut it and it's light-dark,
sound-dark, and you just float for 90 minutes.
- Ooh!
- I get my entire life.
I'll take you, we live in the same city.
I will take you with me.
- So you just exist for that time period.
That's all you do is just exist?
- Yes! - That's it.
- [Jedidah] All you do is exist.
- Yeah.
- I'm telling you, we're gonna go, we're gonna have a date,
but it's interesting because I hadn't thought,
I thought of it as self-care, in that like,
okay, this is something I do for myself,
but what you just taught me
was that it's actually mental health care,
so I love that all of these things
are a part of the spectrum of care
we have to do for ourselves.
- Absolutely, absolutely,
'cause one of the hallmark symptoms, they say,
of depression is anhedonia, which is that loss of interest,
so that then means that you have to have an interest
to begin with, and so that is part
of your mental health identity wellness care,
is finding out who you are and what makes you tick.
I think that makes me tick as well.
I haven't tried it yet, but I think that makes me tick.
It's so, and knowing that about yourself,
and then taking the steps to move towards that.
And at times, it can feel as if there are people,
places, things, forces
that are pulling you the opposite direction,
so I don't wanna minimize the experience
of someone who may be struggling with anxiety,
depression, bipolar disorders, schizophrenia,
other mental health or mental illness concerns.
It is a, it can be a struggle, it can be a journey,
especially when you have five other struggles
and journeys that you are trying to move through as well.
So, I think it's important to have those around you
who could help encourage you through these times
and through these moments, and hopefully help remind you
that if you're in a lower moment right now,
it doesn't always have to stay or remain this way.
- That's right, that's right, and I love this idea
of even in cases of like, you say,
sort of clinical diagnosed, clinical diagnoses,
that you can still work along the spectrum
and find the right practitioner for you,
that those practices, those steps are all actionable,
no matter where you are on the spectrum of mental health.
So we're going to, we're gonna try again
to get Dr. Mazzula 'cause we are super excited
to have her here, too, so let's see if we can get her up,
and hear her, but thank you so much, Ama, for all of the--
(Ama mumbles)
Then great, you're not going anywhere.
I'm just thanking you.
(Jedidah and Ama laugh)
So let's jump into a conversation with Silvia.
Hi, Silvia, can you hear me?
Oh no, Ama, do you hear Silvia?
- I do not, no.
- I don't know what is happening,
but Silvia, I'm telling you this.
We're gonna keep trying, and if we can't get you
on this episode, we are just gonna have an episode
with you on it.
So just so you know, you're coming back, okay?
You are coming back here with us,
so we'll have them keep working on it just a little bit,
but I'm just telling you,
we're gonna have another episode.
You're gonna be in it, we're gonna talk about mental health,
and we'll hear everything you have to say,
because I want to hear from you.
So, Lana, I'm gonna hand her back to you.
Please do try to make that work,
but y'all are going to get some Dr. Mazzula in your life,
okay, just so you know.
But Ama is holding it down here for us,
so let me just open the floor up
to anyone that has any questions.
If you all have questions, please do send them our way.
You can send them through the hashtag, #VSMindMatters,
#VanguardSTEM, you can ask in the room
if you wanna come up and ask Dr. Rowe a question.
You can do that, too.
So feel free if there's something on your mind
that we haven't gotten to and you wanna get to,
please do ask it.
I'll give you about 10 seconds here
to think about the question you have,
and then I'm gonna ask some more questions,
so you go first.
10 seconds starts now.
I would sing the song of that show,
but I don't wanna get myself in trouble,
so we'll just have to have our own 10-second (laugh)
theme song at some point.
I will tell you, Ama, the question
that I'm going to roll with just to get you thinking of
before we hear from our audience is,
going back to this question
about having a mental health practitioner, provider
that is your person.
So once you've found the person
that is your good fit, to what extent
does that kind of stuff need to be disclosed?
Is that something personal?
Do you ever need to say anything
about you getting mental health service to anyone?
Your job, your adviser, any of those people?
- I think that's a really great question.
I say that you disclose as you feel comfortable.
It is not an expectation.
You don't have to do it.
You don't have to feel forced to do it.
You don't have to change it from any other part
of your medical care, your healthcare.
So if it's standard practice in your group,
in your job, in your office to take off
for an appointment, and just call it a doctor's appointment,
it doesn't matter if you're seeing OB/GYN,
the radiologist, a psychiatrist, a psychologist,
or all of them in the same day,
you can just say you're taking your appointment
and that's it.
If you're a student, there are actually federal guidelines
in place to kind of keep what is happening
with your medical care separate
from what's happening with you as a student
in your education, so FERPA, is in that purview.
HIPAA is what you kind of think about with privacy,
with your doctor's appointments,
and so don't feel as if you have to say
or disclose anything that you don't feel comfortable saying
or disclosing.
It is not a mandatory part of it.
If you want to say hi, "Hey, this is what's going on
"and this is what I'm getting help for," you can,
but I will be fully, I'll be transparent and honest
and say that not everyone views mental health care
the same way as physical care.
So if you're saying, "Gosh, what I, I'm coming out
"of a bout of pneumonia and I'm having a really hard time
"with it," someone might send you a fruit basket.
You know what I mean?
They might rally around and sign a card and drop it off.
You go up and disclose,
"Gosh, I'm going through a really round bout of depression."
You might hear crickets, and it's because people don't,
it's just not, it's not at the forefront.
People don't feel comfortable discussing it,
and so, there's not really, I don't feel
as if we have a good language in place, really,
to help and support people with that information.
And so what you're oftentimes trying to do
is kind of rally the troops, saying,
build your community and get them to show up
the same way you would if you had pneumonia,
but at times, some of those troops
may actually go the other direction
because it's bringing up their own diagnoses,
or symptoms or concerns that they haven't addressed
within themselves, or they just don't know how,
or the correct language to use,
and so they choose not to say anything at all,
and that in turn can be an isolating experience.
And so, I would say that it's as you see fit
and as you feel comfortable, and oftentimes,
that's something that's actually discussed
with your mental health provider
to find out the best way to discuss this amongst others.
- Okay, that's really helpful to hear
because I know that there is often
some tension there, right?
And when you're sick people have, they have at least some sort
of shared language around that,
even though many, many people
have many different experiences
with mental health or ill health or whatever,
for some reason, like you say,
we have language around it.
It is socially acceptable to talk about physical ailments,
right, and to your point about
this sort of psychosomatic thing,
you can sometimes even talk about the physical manifestation
of your mental issue more easily
than you can talk about with what's causing it, right?
- Absolutely, absolutely, it's that underpinning
and sometimes that part just stays,
it stays in the dark, it stays in the dark,
and so we're trying to shine light on it.
We know that women in particular take antidepressants
on a much higher rate than their male counterparts.
We know that people of color
do not seek mental health services
at the same rate as others, and a lot of that
goes into a stigma that is attached to it,
and so feeling is, oh god, what do you have to be sad about?
You just need to get over it.
Or why aren't you, there's nothing for you to worry about.
You have a roof over your head,
and food to eat, you're fine.
Or feeling as if it's secondary
to some type of spiritual or moral or ethical feeling
that you have, that you can pray these symptoms away,
or if you just did more, or loved more,
or were more in some way, you wouldn't feel the way
that you're feeling now.
You could imagine if you're someone who,
you're already struggling with trying to balance home,
and work, and school, and all of those things,
and then you're struggling with a medical condition as well,
and you're reaching out for support
and not getting it in return, it can be,
and I said before, a very isolating experience,
and that's what we are working,
and I am so grateful that you're having this platform,
here and now, to work against that isolation.
So people know that they're not alone,
they're not the first person to go through
this journey alone, that there is light
at the end of the tunnel, and it's not a train,
and to remind everyone that it is possible
to move from that place that you may be in now,
to a better, healthier place, with some support in place.
- It, thank you, I am ecstatic
to hear you give your expertise to this subject, right?
Because it is good to know that someone hears
and understands and I'm, in a minute,
I'm gonna ask about whether or not you take patients,
'cause I think by now, there are people
that wanna know that. (Ama laughing)
But we'll get to that, I'm just priming you.
But, you mentioned a thing about actually wanting
to come back to put something I have personally experienced,
and that is when I say that something is happening,
I will hear that I'm not alone,
which is helpful in some ways to know that I'm not strange
for feeling these things, but at the same time,
I feel a little bit silenced by that
because is it true that graduate school, for example,
was one of the most difficult experiences of my life,
and I've been through some pretty bad ones, yes.
Is it true that the pressure of trying to perform
and do all these things are stressful,
and it's something that everyone who walks this space
encounters, yes.
But there are also points of inflection
that happen because of the body that I occupy
this space in, and I find it hard
to reconcile those two things.
The fact that I am not alone, of course,
because this is a global graduate student experience
when I was in that phase, but also,
there are literal moments of feeling alone
because as a black woman doing it,
I actually just am alone, so how do you work
through those kinds of, sort of, paradoxes?
- I usually do that by letting the person
that you're right, and you're right to say
that you know what, yes,
I'm going through a difficult experience
that's difficult for everyone,
but I'm also going through a difficult experience
that's affecting me in a particular way, and allow you
to have your own experience, your own emotions,
your own struggles, and find out the plan
that works best for you to get through it.
And so, it is very different to walk
and live and operate in a space
where you don't see a reflection of yourself.
And if you've never been in an environment
where you haven't seen a reflection of yourself,
it's pretty hard to explain.
But when you not only are in that space,
within that environment, but are expected
to not only survive it, but to then thrive in it,
then you, it can feel insurmountable at times,
and so I usually recognize the fact
that you are going through something
that no one else has gone through before,
because you are the one that is going through it.
However, there have been people
who have gone through similar things in the past.
These are some of the things that have worked for them.
Let's find out what now works for you.
- Right, right, that's good.
That is good.
Let me ask you one more question about research
'cause I find that sitting at these intersections
often means that there is a dearth of actual, like,
scholarly research on subjects,
so are there places that we can go
to find research about mental health practices
for women of color in STEM, or is it something
that we're innovating and that you wanna help us build?
- That is something that we will have to build.
It is, I think it's something that we will have to build,
and I think it is such a, it is such,
I feel that if you're catching it at that point
from so many different angles.
You mentioned intersectionality earlier.
You are trying to move through a space
that few have gone through before you,
and oftentimes, your focus is also about bringing
those behind you, and it's so hard
to also then be in the present
to take care of yourself, when you're not 100% sure
how you're getting to where you're going,
and you're trying to pull 10 people behind you.
It's rough and it's tough, and I don't know right off,
any resources in place, particularly for this group.
That just means we have to create it.
- Agree, agree, and I now have you recorded it,
saying you will help with that.
(Ama laughs) Looking forward to it,
to working with you on that, so.
- Let's do it.
- Yes, so what we're gonna do, well,
let me ask you one more question
and then what we're gonna do,
if everybody has a few minutes extra
is we think we've got Silvia online and ready to go,
so the first question I'm gonna ask you, Ama,
is do you take patients, and if so,
in what capacity, and then for the team,
once you answer that question,
all of those who are here in our village,
I'd love it if y'all can hang on maybe five
or six minutes extra, so that we can give Silvia a chance
to respond to some of all the incredible stuff
we've been talking to, but also,
we're going to have Silvia back on again
so that she also can give us her insight.
So Ama, I'm a throw to you,
and then we're gonna bring Silvia up,
get her set, and at the end, I will close her all down,
but I'd love to hear about
when we're gonna set up our appointment.
- (laughs) Well, I will say, unfortunately,
currently, the patients that I see
are those who are admitted to the hospital
or in the emergency room, so they are currently
within the inpatient hospital setting,
so I don't have a clinic.
I previously had a clinic, as you mentioned earlier,
but I don't have an outpatient clinic,
now that I have the medical directorialship,
so that has sort of taken over my outpatient clinic time,
but it is a love and passion that I will always,
I will always have, so that's what I'll say right now.
However, if and when that is to change, will be,
everyone here will be one of the first ones to know.
- Perfect, so since we'll be working together,
it'll be very easy to tell people, and we are not mad.
You continue to slay as Medical Director.
(Ama laughing)
That, it's good know that you are now
in our village, so let's get Silvia up here.
First of all, Ama, thank you so much.
You've been incredible.
- Thank you for having me, this was wonderful.
- Yes, don't go anywhere yet, and...
Hi Silvia, third time's a charm.
- Oh my goodness. (chuckles)
- I hear her, I hear you. (Silvia laughing)
- I hear you, too!
- Thank you, Ama, you've been holding it down.
(Ama and Silvia laughing)
Wow, so much great stuff.
I don't even know how to respond,
so you ask, I don't know where you,
what you want me to talk about or speak to.
- Anything that's on your mind.
I want to give you this sort of five, 10 minutes
to just go at it, or respond,
or we can ask you some questions,
but I just wanted to give you space,
but also let you know you're coming back,
so you don't have to get it all in.
- Okay.
I'm not sure.
- Let's start, let's start with,
let's start with sort of your perspective
on the specific space that we as women of color
in STEM occupy.
Some of your work deals with trauma,
deals with sort of identity, and something Ama said earlier,
which I thought was really great was,
is when you ask your practitioner about identity,
and they have a bad result,
then that's not your practitioner,
but I wonder if you could sort of say more
about how you localized yourself
in the particular set of academic interest you have.
- So, I wasn't as clear as Dr. Rowe,
in knowing what I wanted to do when I grew up.
So I come from a first,
I'm a first generation college student.
I didn't know about college until I was already a junior
in high school or something like that.
So I didn't have a clear picture
of what I wanted to do.
I knew that I wanted to help people.
And I went into biology with a minor in psychology,
and then after spending a summer in medical school,
playing with cadavers, I realized it wasn't for me.
(laughs) So I went into psychology,
and I've done a lot of clinical work,
but one of the things that made me go into a PhD
was realizing that a lot of the things
that my clients were coming to therapy with,
the books just weren't answering.
There was no research, there was no articles
on how to really address some of the nuanced things
that some of the clients were speaking about.
And so I continued to do clinical work,
but most of my work now
is talking about culture of competencies,
and getting more women into these careers,
because we are really missing in these spaces.
- Yeah.
- Yeah.
And that's the thing, and I, I did fangirl on you both
when you got here and that's part of the reason why, right?
Because what I hear and what I wanted
when I was in graduate school, and still,
in terms of keeping my mental health practice up,
I wanted someone who I felt understood me,
and not necessarily because we had exactly
the same experience, 'cause as you both said, right?
Ama, you started sort of early
and you wanted to do by seeing this show.
Silvia, you were, as you went, you realized
that maybe the cadavers weren't your thing.
I'm with you, that's why I went physical science,
'cause I don't need any blood of any sort ever,
but that we have different experiences,
but that having someone where you can start with
at least some cultural touchpoints makes all the difference.
It sort of helps you get to,
get to the meat of it sort of faster.
So Silvia, let me ask you about how you feel
about using mental health services
to deal with these systemic crises, right?
How do you use this actual time with a practitioner
to handle things that are much bigger than you,
and then I've got a question from our audience
which I'll get to right after you're done.
- So I think the most important thing
for anyone to know is that it's okay to talk about it.
Because a lot of times, especially when we experience things
that are more subtle, like microaggressions,
you're left thinking, am I making things up,
or if you say, if you talk about your experiences
with people that don't get it,
then the response may be something along the lines of,
you're pulling the race card,
or you're, it's all in your head, or just suck it up.
So bringing it up in therapy or in counseling,
or in, is just validating, it's validating
to know that this is not, it's not in your head.
This is reality, it happens all the time,
and experiences of racism and discrimination
raised to the level of trauma.
I mean, we have research to show that.
- Yeah, I think one of the things you both hit on today
is this idea that it's okay to talk about it,
that it's your choice, right?
You don't have to talk about it,
but that it is okay, 'cause you're right.
When these things happen, you wonder, wait,
did I just imagine that?
Did that really happen?
That is definitely something that happens.
So let me ask a question from the audiences,
from Chrystelle, she wants to know,
how do you respond to people who tell you
to pray through your mental health issues?
- Well, for me, I think it's important
to talk through mental health problems,
and to have someone that you can bounce ideas with,
or someone that can reflect what you're going through,
so I think praying and religion and spirituality
is really helpful, but a lot of times,
you need an outside person to also help guide you
through that process.
- Yeah. - Yeah.
- [Ama] I would agree with that.
I sort of view faith as a practical expression,
and so, what you want is for them
to realize that prayer can be a part of it,
and you could say, "You know what, thanks,
"I appreciate that," if you feel
as if that's an appropriate response,
but the same way that they wouldn't expect for you
to pray only through a heart attack
and not go to the emergency room,
or pray through any other major condition,
this is the same, so, I think teasing out the two,
especially in our community, is,
it is an uphill battle because that is sometimes
what the response is, but you don't tell someone,
"Hey, pray through your diabetes.
"Don't take your insulin.
"I wish you the best."
With that, it's understood that you take your medications
and we want you to get better,
and you exercise and eat and do this and do that,
as part of a big picture towards your health.
And so I try to say that definitely prayer can be a part
of it, but let's add some practical expression
of the word of God in there as well,
and move forward with that.
- I like that, I like that, and it's really,
it's really, really key that both of you touched on it.
It's not a dismissal of faith or faith practice,
or deep-seated spiritual, sort of grounding,
but that is also not the way, that is not the only way,
and it shouldn't be the exclusive way
with which we handle these situations.
I really love this notion, and Silvia,
I'd love to hear you weigh in here.
I love this notion that Ama brought up
about sort of this spectrum of mental health practice,
and you sort of talked about it at first, too,
when I could hear you and no one else could,
so let's go back to that point,
when you were saying that there are things
that just practices and ways of being and understanding
from, all the way from floating, in my case,
all the way to seeing a mental health professional,
that there's a spectrum of mental health care.
What are your thoughts about other ways
that one can take care of their mental health?
Mind their mental health.
- There's a lot of things that people can do,
and I wanted to just kind of piggyback
on what Dr. Rowe said before about how one of the signs
of, for example, depression is anhedonia,
or losing interest in some activities,
but you really need to know what you're interested in
in the first place, so I think part of,
a practical thing to maintain mental health
is really finding something that you're interested in.
Whether it's listening to music
or just being alone, or reading,
or walking, or whatever it is,
really finding something that makes you feel good
during a stressful day, and doing that
on a regular basis, like literally scheduling
into your calendar.
On Fridays, from one to two, walk, mental health.
Speaking to other people, having friends with people
that get it is very important.
And having different support networks
that help with different things.
So a support network that helps with going through school,
going through a job, going through relationship issues,
whatever the case may be, because not every friend
or colleague can help.
Venting sessions with everything that you're going through,
right, so having different support systems in place
for yourself.
- Right, now that's really good, that's really good.
So let me ask you both this
'cause we're gonna have to sign off
in just a second.
I'd like for each of you to sort of,
given what we've talked about,
given your extensive experience and expertise,
what is the one thing you want our audience to leave with?
If there is anything that you want them to remember
among the many, many awesome things that you've given us,
what is the one thing you want them to take with you?
Take with them.
Dr. Mazzula, we'll start with you.
- Okay, I think that the, if anything,
is that there is no shame in admitting that we all struggle.
Every single one of us struggles.
Whether you're a student, a professor,
a researcher, a psychologist, everyone needs someone
to help them maintain their mental health.
And if someone, and if you can't find that person,
there are resources to help find psychologists
or counselors, but that it's okay, it's okay.
There's no, I mean we have a lot of stigma
around mental health, but it's important
to take care of ourselves, especially in these spaces
when we're so isolated and alone to begin with.
- Dr. Rowe, last word from you.
- I agree with that, and it would be
to pursue your total wellness and wellbeing,
so your physical health, your emotional health,
you spiritual health, and to pursue that
and it's okay to acknowledge the fact
that one or more of those areas
may not be where you want them to be right now,
and to seek help until you get them
the way that you want them to be,
and have the life that you wanna live.
I believe should have the lives that they want to live,
and even if the life before you
has not been what you have wanted it to be,
because of things out of your control,
we can help you take control now and move forward
in a different direction.
So hope, I guess.
- Yes, yes, yes, yes!
Life, given from both of you, and I like,
as you were both talking, I just realized
that we're definitely have to have you back,
Dr. Mazzula, but we also have to have you back,
Dr. Rowe, because y'all need to talk,
so we can talk together.
We got research papers to write.
- Oh yes, those are missing especially in mental health.
- Exactly, exactly, I think that there is a way
that we're going to have to turn this
into actual tools and things people can hold on to.
So there are some articles coming out on #VanguardSTEM
that we're gonna do that with, but I'd love to be in touch
with both of you about putting,
writing our stories into the scholarly record.
That our experiences matter, that they're important,
and that it's okay for us to talk about them,
so I'd love to invite you both back to the show,
to invite you both to participate
in creating a language around this work,
so what we're gonna do
is I'm gonna give you a few little closing thoughts
so that you hear them before we go,
and then if we have any more time,
we'll continue the conversation,
but let me just say it has been my honor
to host you both, and to hear such wisdom
and insight, and expertise, right?
Because as you say, it's great to have people
that know generally about these things,
but to be able to talk to you two
have put in time and effort and dedication,
and gotten the credentials and understand the system,
to help us through it, to give us language,
to give us voice.
Those things are critical and I, number one,
am thankful, and I saw some nodding heads down there,
who are also thankful, so thank you for being here for us,
and giving us actionable wisdom
that we can apply going forward.
We'll be building language around this together.
Let me also say thank you to the #VanguardSTEM team.
We call ourselves, small but mighty,
'cause indeed we are.
These are the women that help make this whole thing happen.
Natasha Berryman, Lana Hunter, Chrystelle Vilfranc,
Leolene Carrington, y'all hold it down.
Everything magical you see from #VanguardSTEM
is because of these women, and we are very, very thankful.
So thank you y'all for holding it down,
especially while I was gone last week,
and if you saw this episode today and you loved it,
share it with your friend.
We'll have the video up shortly.
As I said, we'll have a take two,
because we can all agree that there's more for us
to talk about, but in the meantime,
the show will be up soon, so you can share it
with your friends.
We'll definitely be tweeting that out.
It'll be on all our social media.
We'll share it with Doctors Rowe and Mazzula,
so that everyone will have access to it.
We hope you enjoyed tonight's show.
We had one of our #VanguardSTEM villagers write for us
this month, so there will be an article coming out
by Dr. Nicole Cabrera Salazar,
talking about her mental health experience
and sort of continuing to demystify her experience
as a Latina going through a PhD program
and using mental health service,
so we're really trying to build up a language
and a sort of, a written legacy of this work,
so don't miss her article.
We'll be sure to share that, too.
She'll be deep diving into how her experience looked.
We'll also be offering a bunch of resources
and we'll touch base with our awesome panelists.
They'll give us some more information.
We'll be sending out the articles
that we reference on the show.
The last show of our season is next month,
June 6, 7 pm Eastern, don't miss it.
It's gonna be special.
We'll tell you what the theme is later
but mark your calendar now, June 6, 7 pm Eastern time.
That's gonna be this show.
If you want to be on the team that makes this all happen,
you can email us at hello@vanguardstem,
or mention us on any of the social medias
we up in here, so just hit us up some kind of way.
Let us know.
We're especially looking for people
that can do video or copy-editing and production,
so those are the kinds of folks we're looking for right now.
Join the conversation on Facebook,
on Twitter, on Instagram.
We are also on Snapchat, but you know how that goes,
and if you wanna be featured
at the Women-Crush Wednesday in STEM,
we can all agree that we have two Women-Crush Wednesdays
in STEM on this show tonight.
If you wanna be one, just hit up bit.ly/VSWCWinSTEM
to send your nomination in.
It's my pleasure to host this incredible show
with Dr. Ama Arthur Rowe and Dr. Silvia Mazzula.
- Thank you.
- I will see you both very soon.
Good night, everyone.
- Night.
- Good night.
Không có nhận xét nào:
Đăng nhận xét