I think he [Jimmy Carter] is one of the three meanest
men I've ever met. The other two were Mohammed Ali
and Sonny Barter, the president of the Hells Angels.
Those three men are a whole cut above
everybody else I've ever run into in
terms of sheer functional meanness.
Functional meanness? -Yeah, well, meaning the
ability to get from A to B, C, M,
Z, whatever you want. Carter would have cut my
head off to carry North Dakota,
cut your legs off to carry a ward in the Bronx,
and never apologize for it.
He understands the system. That's why he won.
That's really all I said. I admire that—
a person who played the game as
well as he did, and in the sort of magnolia
shade that he'd played it in for a while.
He was perceived as sort of a southern dingbat,
but I saw him push Teddy
Kennedy around down in Athens and Atlanta.
I had never seen Kennedy pushed
around anywhere in any room, and I was stunned.
I thought "oh-ho." This was 1974.
I thought, "Whoops. This is a bad one. You have to watch him."
And sure enough he announced he was going to run for president
four or five months later. When he did,
I thought I had to go see him.
I thought I should talk to this man.
Were you as impressed by his
references to Bob Dylan and things as
you appeared to be, or were you're doing
another little bit of ibogaine writing?
No, what he did in that speech—that I
constantly referred to in the article
which Rolling Stone did not run, which left me hanging
out in some hideous slum—he just seriously
whipsawed all these
lawyers at the Law Day Alumni
Speech, and this wasn't just the alumni
of the University of Georgia Law School.
It was the distinguished alumni, Dean Rusk,
all of them state senators, judges. He just beat
the hell out of them. He had been governor for
3 & 1/2 years and they had given him a hard time.
The whole establishment had been against him
and he stomped on them in public.
I had never seen a politician do that before,
and he just pushed Teddy [Kennedy] aside:
"Outta my way. I got work to do. Move aside."
And Kennedy was stunned. I was stunned.
I don't tape politicians' speeches normally,
but about ten minutes into it
I went to the car and got my
tape recorder because I'd never
heard anything like this,
and I still haven't, from Carter, either. -But what you're
impressed by is the toughness
and the naked… -Oh, yeah, he will eat your
shoulder right off if he thinks it's right.
Have you changed your
original impressions of him since he
came to power?
No, that's what I said he was going to do,
that's what he's doing. He's just eating
Russian shoulders right now instead of Humphreys'.
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