Let's say it's the early 1940s and you just found out that there are death
camps where tens of thousands perhaps more people are being starved and
tortured and raped and gassed and shot into mass graves.
What do you do?
What do
you encourage your government to do?
Hi I'm Scott Ott with Bill Whittle and
Stephen Green and I ask a follow-up question; what if it's happening now?
Well
we don't know all the details of what's going on in North Korea but the
International Court of Justice in The Hague has impaneled at the behest of the
International Bar Association a group of experts to take testimony for the period
of time in North Korea between 1970 to 2006 and the testimony they heard
sparked one of the judges on that panel who was also a child in the Auschwitz
and Sachsenhausen death camps in Nazi Germany to say that it's worse in North
Korea than it was in the death camps of Germany.
Now they didn't fill in all the
details in the Washington Post story I read and you might make the excuse or
the Koreans might make the excuse well the reports only happen only occurred up
through 2006 but we've had more recent reports of people who have escaped from
North Korea who said some of their friends were sent to political prisoner
camps.
We can see satellite photos of these massive camps that are said to
house some 130,000 largely political prisoners.
North Korea contends they're
just ordinary penitentiaries, and we know that people are being sent to
re-education camps for minor offenses for fixed periods of time.
In some cases
the the so-called penitentiaries are holding generations of families that
have run afoul of the Kim dynasty.
Gentlemen, we don't have all the details
but we have some information now that would lead us to believe there could be
something worse than Auschwitz, worse than Treblinka, worse than Sachsenhausen,
happening right under our noses.
Bill Whittle, what is the obligation of a
moral nation like the United States of America in this situation?
The first
thing I want to say about this is that this gentleman made the comparison to
the German death camps when in point of fact what we're seeing in North Korea is
the gulags.
This is a communist system and and I just want to point this out it
not - needless to say to minimize the the German Nazi SS camps in any way but
the fact that he went to Germany and not to communist Russia is an indication of
how well the left has basically papered up what was in terms of victims I think
a larger number and in terms of the way you died a significantly worse way to go.
I understand what I'm about to say is extraordinarily controversial.
I understand these death camps very well.
Treblinka by the way, everybody talks
about Auschwitz, Treblinka was about the size of a large truck stop on on a
freeway interchange on an interstate, about the size of a large truck stop, and
any given day anywhere from 1,200 to 12,000 people killed there in a just a
giant machine and that's all they did was just kill them.
In a space
so small you simply can't believe it so I understand what's going on here but if
you look at some of these stories like Kolyma Tales by Varlam Shalamov, I
can't recommend that highly enough, you realize that the entire gulag system was
designed to work political opponents to death.
That was the job.
They not only
killed you, they worked you to death.
Life expectancy in a gold mine in Kolyma was
probably about two or three months and of all the stories I heard from Kolyma
and I'm coming to Korea I just want to make this point of all the stories I
heard in Kolyma tales the one that were struck me the most was this guy who went
out and did a day's work the hard work out in these mines
in in 60 degrees below zero temperatures and they came for him that night and
took him out and when they realized that they were taking him out to shoot him
his thought was if I'd known this I wouldn't have worked today, I would have
stayed home and rested.
So we are dealing with the logical end product of
communist ideology and collectivism so what do we do about it?
If we had a had full information about Treblinka and Sobibor in Belzec and and
Kelmo and Auschwitz, those were the five actual death camps, I think we had a
moral obligation to bomb those and people could say well you would have
killed people innocent civilians yes we would have killed the innocent civilians
that were there that day but we would have stopped this factory conveyor belt
where this kind of thing happened every day.
Korea is a horrific regime and it
has allowed we have allowed it to become far stronger because of the inaction of
the last eight years.
We seem to have a president who's ready to stand up to
this guy.
You have in Korea the same problem we have with the nuclear problem
with Korea.
The moral obligation to take out these camps is compounded by the
fact that if you do that's probably going to result in an extraordinarily
heavy artillery barrage on Seoul and and more than hundreds of thousands of
people will die in that.
I've never believed in this many people dying
versus this many people dying is what makes it right but you don't have the
impunity to go and do the right thing which is to not only destroy those camps
but to destroy the people that created those camps to eliminate the regime
that created those camps and to bring justice to these people by doing the
exact same thing that the Jews did so admirably and that is you track every one
of these guys down, you don't give them a moment's rest, and you you pursue them to
the grave.
Stephen Green, you have that belief last week mentioned your heritage
of being half Jewish.
I'm assuming that in almost any bloodline of anybody who
is even partially Jewish there are people who were among at the very least
refugees in Nazi Germany but probably in the death camps, probably perished in the
death camps.
We like to think of ourselves as people who if we were alive
at that time we would have stood up and done something.
We would have intervened.
We would have stopped the horrors.
We may be at a time such as that
now Steve, what should we do?
Wow a great topic Scott and I do not
mean at all to belittle the the horrors of what goes on inside North Korea.
I
don't know if you remember this story but just two or three weeks ago a North
Korean soldier escaped through the Demilitarized Zone.
He was shot several
times by his comrades on his way out because communists build gates
to keep people in not to keep them out and doctors were shocked.
You have to
remember that North Korea is kind of like 19th century Prussia.
It's not a an
army it's not a country with an army it's an army with a country.
The military
gets first dibs on everything and here is this this this escaped soldier who
last I heard was still alive but the doctors operating on him found
out that not only was he shorter than the average South Korean which is true of
the North Korean population as a whole but his body was riddled with parasites
and this is not the first defector that South Korean doctors have learned this
about so you're talking about a nation of 22 million people that is probably
just absolutely riddled with parasites because if this is a condition of a
frontline soldier you know it's even worse for somebody living you know in a
village somewhere north along the Yellow River or something like that so the
conditions in the entire country are just they're criminal.
It's it's not just
the it's not just the the North Korean gulag it's it's the whole country as a
giant gulag is just which state of it or which stage of it you're in.
That said
you know we had looked at at bombing Treblinka or Auschwitz.
We were not ignorant
of this.
I just read a reread of World War two history that I can't remember
the name of Cauldron of War or something like that that looked into Churchill's
notes and and others about the possibility of bombing these places and
they decided it was just not worth the the the risk, that it was going to prove
in effect if the Germans had plenty of other ways to to kill Jews and they were
going to use them all, that the best thing we could do to end the Holocaust
was to win the war as quickly as possible and Churchill and
FDR did everything they could to win the war just as quickly as as it was
feasible and then our men in the field did the did the dirty dangerous job and
you know what was 600,000 of them never came home so I think our consciences are
clear on that.
That said the Soviet Union was every bit as bad as Nazi Germany.
Do
we have some kind of obligation to to rid the world of the Soviet government?
Well yes and no.
We we outlasted them very much on purpose.
Reagan said we win
they lose and he made that happen but it wasn't our job to invade.
They were a
nuclear-armed power.
They held the world hostage to to their homegrown slavery
and it's the same situation in North Korea.
They're a nuclear-armed power with
a nuclear-armed protector in Beijing so our obligation is to outlast them.
Our
obligation is to make sure that the the Korea is never unified under the evil
Kim regime and we're doing just that.
In the in the gulag, you were talking about
vermin and parasites, in the Gulag Archipelago, Solzhenitsyn talks about how
when they would take clothes off of somebody either somebody who died
recently or whatever, that that you could brush bedbugs and lice off in sheets,
they would come off in sheets, like these just-just-just sheets of them, thousands
of them, in one in one garment.
The International Criminal Court has 11
categories of crimes against humanity.
This panel that included this man who as
a child had been in Auschwitz and Sachsenhausen, found that North Korea
had violated ten, had committed ten of those crimes against humanity, out of the
eleven.
The only thing that they didn't do was apartheid.
We are witnessing in
our time what this gentleman calls something that is worse than anything
that's happening anywhere in the world, present or past.
The question is, how do
we address that?
We have had a tendency to speak loosely in international
diplomacy or at least in you know the punditry circles and the people
gabbing on social media about other countries where atrocity
happening as if they were being engaged in by all the people of the country.
So
we talk about Iran, we talk about North Korea, but like Steve said North
Korea is not just an army with a country, it's a dictator with a country.
It's a
dictator with an army that has a country and it is not the North Korean people
who deserve our opprobrium, about whom we should be angry and
enraged, it is the Kim dynasty and their political cronies and we need to send a
clear message to the people of North Korea that we are with them.
These people
are hostages.
These people are prisoners.
Not just the
130,000 estimated to be in the four massive camps that we can see from outer
space with our cameras but everybody in the country because when you have a
hundred and thirty thousand of your citizens as political prisoners, you've
put the rest of them on notice that they're next and we cannot just sit back
and tell stories to our grandchildren years from now that gee, I wish I would
have known more.
We should have done something about that.
Never again.
Well
never again is now.
For Bill Whittle, Stephen Green, I'm Scott Ott.
Thanks to the
members at BillWhittle.com for making Right Angle possible.
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