(funky music)
(popping)
- And we're back
- We're back
- Seeking wisdom is back, I'm excited,
fueled up from coffee, let's get this.
- You are.
This is how you know, DC, this is how you know
DC is from, is from Queens, New York.
When it gets cold out, he will not go outside.
- I definitely will not go outside.
- He will not go outside which doesn't make any sense,
because Queens is east coast, it is cold,
but there is just like a ...
- It's cold
- Something happens out there, he just will not go outside.
Usually doesn't drink the inside coffee,
but this is, if DC is drinking the inside coffee,
then you know it's cold out.
- It's cold. I'm drinking inside coffee.
I'm not going out there, it's brutal.
- Okay, I love this because, I, DC used to have to
send me messages in order for getting content
for seeking wisdom, but now you have this
Sunday night email that you send the company
and it's just become this goldmine for seeking wisdom.
Thank you, you're making my job, easy.
You sent one last Sunday night,
and this is about waiting for perfect.
And I think there's so many sub-themes in this.
So I'm gonna call today's episode, Stop Waiting For Perfect.
- I love that title.
- I'm gonna do what I do best, which is replay things
you've already said to me
(laughing)
and get you to remember them, so
- Yeah, the email I sent to the company
is called a TSNS, the Sunday night series
if I remember, and
- I thought it was the Sunday night set,
I like the Sunday night series,
okay, the Sunday night set is kind of
- Series is kind of
- Serious.
- I began sending this a month or two ago
and I just send them out, I try to write
what's on my mind.
Sometimes people reply, sometimes they don't,
I'm like, does anyone look at this?
And I hear good feedback from people, I guess they read it.
And so, it's provided fodder now for seeking wisdom.
- I've been replying and I want you to know that I'm
not replying to pump you up,
I'm like, this is good feedback, I like this.
So, this week's email, you said,
you took two screenshots of things that you
said in slack, which were basically, like, simplified.
Like, somebody in creative and somebody in product
about things that looked complicated,
and you just said, basically, simplify.
You took screenshots of them, put them in your email
and you said, the point of this email is
waiting for perfect.
"Waiting for perfect" is something we must avoid.
Waiting for perfect can look like this,
waiting until you have consensus,
waiting for perfect information,
waiting until we've had the chance to rewrite all the things
right, like, rewrite every word on the home page.
You said engineers love to fall into this trap.
- Yeah, they love this one.
- Waiting until we have the perfect strategy,
tool, framework, or process.
Waiting until we have the perfect setup,
rig, studio, equipment.
Waiting for perfect is a trap.
We all fall into it, we all seek it,
but it never comes.
It's an illusion.
It's an illusion that paralyzes.
- Whoo, that's pretty good.
(clapping)
- Pretty good.
- Old man still has something there.
- You've still got a fast ball.
So what is that, waiting for perfect,
you've seen this list over and over,
and over and over again.
- I've suffered through it.
I fall into this trap all the time, myself.
But, I kind of share that,
because I had observed some things happening
you know, within the team, the company,
where we're starting to scale,
we're starting to get
lots of people on the team,
and one thing that naturally happens around this size
and continues to happen, even more so as you get bigger,
is this kind of surgical perfect all the time.
And, so, that's when consensus comes in,
it's when the concept of Bezo's one way versus
two way doors, I love that concept, I use it all the time.
Basically, he has this framework where he says,
most of the decisions that you make, that you will make,
are two way doors, and what he means by that is
they're not irreversible.
Meaning that it's a door with two ways,
so you can make this decision, but if you figure out
that the decision is wrong, you can turn around
and come back, right, from that door.
So, two way decisions, you don't need to wait for consensus,
you don't need to wait for perfect information,
you don't need to wait for perfection,
just make the decision and learn from that decision.
And, versus one way doors.
One way doors are serious decisions,
you should spend a lot of time analyzing,
because once you make them, they are not reversible.
- Can you talk about, we haven't talked this much about
it on podcasts, but something that you're allergic to
that you try to kill here at Drift is consensus.
Why, what is so bad about consensus?
Why are you so, even if somebody is like,
let's vote, in slack with emojis about blank,
No. What is it about consensus?
- I spend a lot of time trying to stomp...
- Stomp
- ...out consensus.
- Yes
- Big time.
I'm surprised you've never done an episode on this
because it's so foundational.
You know, to me, consensus needs to be avoided
at all costs, right?
Because consensus is regression to the mean.
Meaning, like, you basically create something
you have consensus when you're creating something
you are averaging out to the least offensive
thing possible, so therefore,
unlike what Seth Grodin says, you need to pick an edge,
and you need to go all the way to the edge,
and get a positive, or you know, negative reaction
out of that, you regress to the least offensive
version of something, meaning it is,
by definition, not going to be able to be great.
And what we're trying to go after,
is to create greatness, right?
To create those great op ten x, a hundred x opportunities.
And if you keep moving towards consensus,
it will never happen, but consensus is the trap
we all fall into, because we are social animals,
and we want everyone to get along.
We don't want anyone to be upset
and so we will always err on the side of consensus.
And get people to vote, and no one wants to stick
their neck out and so like, everyone agreed, and
so that leads to crappy decision-making.
- Yeah, consensus is just a way of, like, getting a
you know, you don't want to own the decision.
We all voted on it and it failed, so really,
we're all responsible
- But no one's responsible.
- I can't tell you which book this is from,
but there's a great quote that I sent to you
recently about this.
Kinda related to this.
This guy says, the risk of insult
is the price of clarity, right?
And that to me, has a lot to do with consensus, right?
Because if you're... the reason people go to consensus
is because then you don't piss anyone off.
- Totally.
- But, then you've got this, I don't know why we're doing
this, why we made this decision,
we're saying, hey we did it this way, here's why.
Also it speaks to having a culture
that's open to feedback, right?
- Totally. And having a culture that has backbone, right?
Has a back bone, makes a decision, yeah,
disagree and commit to the decision,
and then be responsible for it and learn from it
when it succeeds and when it fails.
- Alright, so that's consensus.
But back to this waiting for perfect,
a couple other things that came up...
- Trap.
- Happens. You sent me this screenshot
you're back to rereading the homie,
the legend, Steven Pressfield,
- Love him.
- Big fan of the show.
- Can you adopt me?
- You said, that'd be amazing.
No, that's be too much.
- Why?
- The two of you together would be too much.
- Oh my goodness, imagine the books we'd write together.
- Too much.
So passages from, I think this is The War Of Art
play hurt, the amateur believes that she must have
all her ducks in a row before she can launch her
startup or compose her symphony or design her iPhone app.
Professional knows better.
- That's actually from Turning Pro.
- It's from Turning Pro? Oh okay, I thought it was, actually
- Yeah, it's very similar and I love that.
I love, I mean every time I read Steven Pressfield,
he's like, just, energy pills,
- Yep
- Fires me up
- Yep
- So if you haven't read The War of Art, I would start there
or Turning Pro, you need to read both of those books
right there because he tells you the truth, right?
He talks about the amateur versus the professional
and all of us are not professional, we're striving
to be different things and there's big difference
between the two.
- We just got to get, athletes play hurt,
warriors fight scared.
The professional takes two aspirin and keeps
on trucking.
That's pretty good.
I think it's just the momentum right?
One of the things I've, more or less, learned from you
is like, momentum is everything, right?
Momentum is everything, right?
So if you have that great idea, great.
What is the thing you can do today, right?
The early days of Drift, we knew we were going
to do marketing, but the slice we picked off
was product marketing.
That was a tiny piece, right?
How do you focus on this big pie
with six people on the team?
So, it's always a momentum thing.
- Yeah, we're naturally, all of us are lazy,
especially myself, and so momentum is important
because you need that forward progress
and making progress toward some bigger goal
to keep you in the fight, to keep you going each day,
to keep you going through, because most days
is it gonna be tough and hard and you're not
gonna want to do it?
But if you have momentum, that's the little pick-me-up
that keeps you going each day.
- I just read, I just finished reading Atomic Habits
by your guy, James Clear, and the whole thing is
get one percent better each day,
because that compounds.
Remember in the old office,
you used to have that equation, math equation
and it would show you what getting one percent
improvement times 365 days looks like.
- Yeah
- That was like crazy, a crazy visual.
Like one percent better everyday.
- I need to bring back that visual,
but that book is great, Atomic Habits, James Clear.
We share his stuff.
He's a great homie, should be on the podcast.
- He should.
- Let's get the homie on.
But another thing I talked about in that internal
post and why this was so important
was the idea of the scientific method, right?
- Hmm I did hear.
- And that is why all of this is important
because you want to build around,
look up the scientific method
and you'll see a circle,
a chart that goes into a circle.
That is a circle, that starts with a question
and goes into research, then it goes into hypothesis
to test, analyze data, you conclude something,
you get results, you form a new question, right?
This is a more drawn out version,
but basically the whole scientific method
is how you want to approach what you do
with a new company, right?
You want to have a hypothesis, you want to test
that out in the real world.
You want to gather results from that.
Learn, right, this is the learning loop.
Go back, and have another hypothesis,
to keep iterating.
You want to keep that iterative process,
rapid iteration is the key to rapid learning,
and this is why momentum is important.
This is why you can't wait for perfect,
because every scientific design, experiment design,
will be flawed somehow, no matter how perfect
you want it to be.
And so you need to get out there when the costs are low,
right, when this is a two way door, not a one way door.
The cost is low, so get out there and start testing that.
- Alright this is CTA for today.
You're heading into 2019, everybody's got big goals.
- Big goals.
- Just get started, right?
If your goal is to do one hundred pushups,
start and do one today and do two tomorrow, right?
I mean, if you're gonna run a marathon,
run a mile today, like.
I think it is this one percent better.
Get started somewhere and stop waiting for perfect.
That's what we want to leave people with today.
- Two way doors versus one way doors.
Hit us up on iTunes.
- The reviews are back, so maybe it was broken.
- Yeah.
- Maybe it was broken
- Yeah I think it was.
- Somebody said we should be charging for this
type of content.
- Amen.
- Duty calls.
- So hit us up on Stitcher, Soundcloud,
Apple podcasts,
- Spotify
- Spotify
- YouTube, my boy is trying to get You Tube stats.
How are we doing on YouTube stats?
- (clicks tongue) Right here, I have a bunch of stuff
right here on this episode.
- See me. In the middle, in the middle.
- All right. See ya.
- All Right, See ya.
- We're outta here.
(funky music)
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